[YamahaDX] Grey Matter E! Installation for DX7S

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Hello All,

I am in a jam and could really use some help from the community. I have a Grey Matter E! board and I am trying to install it into a Yamaha DX7S. There is instructions all over the web for the DX7 and DX7II but I cannot find a list of which IC's to solder to for the DX7S. If anyone has any leads it would be much appreciated because I am dead in the water with this one.

Thanks,
Chris

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

As far as I'm aware there's NO existing Grey Matter E! expansion for the DX7s (prove me wrong...). There are two versions of the E! board - one for the DX7 Mk. I and another one for the DX7 II D/FD - which cannot be used vice versa.



regards,
Michael

[Carlo [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

This is correct, E! Is not for DX7s that is a single version of the DX7II but with only a single sonic section
Carlo

Inviato dagli anelli di saturno

Post by ***@yahoo.de [YamahaDX]
As far as I'm aware there's NO existing Grey Matter E! expansion for the DX7s (prove me wrong...). There are two versions of the E! board - one for the DX7 Mk. I and another one for the DX7 II D/FD - which cannot be used vice versa.
regards,
Michael

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Hey Guys ,

Thanks for the response. Here is a link stating the Specs for the card I got, for both DX7II and DX7S

http://www.dx7.nl/downloads/greymatter%20uitleg%20voor%20gebruik%20in%20dx7IID%20en%20S%20uitvoering.pdf http://www.dx7.nl/downloads/greymatter%20uitleg%20voor%20gebruik%20in%20dx7IID%20en%20S%20uitvoering.pdf

Here is another another picture that can shine a little light. All through-out the manual for the Grey Matter E! they talk about how to use the boards features in a DX7II and DX7S because of the screen being smaller.

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Here is the source document I was using that showed the original installation instructions I had gotten.

[Wes Garland [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Do you have E! Board for the DX7S? Those instructions are for the mk2 board.

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 23, 2015, at 9:55 AM, "***@yahoo.com [YamahaDX]" <
***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



Hey Guys ,

Thanks for the response. Here is a link stating the Specs for the card I
got, for both DX7II and DX7S

http://www.dx7.nl/downloads/greymatter%20uitleg%20voor%20gebruik%20in%20dx7IID%20en%20S%20uitvoering.pdf

Here is another another picture that can shine a little light. All
through-out the manual for the Grey Matter E! they talk about how to use
the boards features in a DX7II and DX7S because of the screen being smaller.

[Chris Benoit [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Hey Wes,
Yes I do, but when I look at the instructions the IC chips do not line up with the schematic. I posted another document that says that the DX7S has a separate set of instructions and they are very hard to find at the moment.



On Sunday, August 23, 2015 10:59 AM, "Wes Garland ***@page.ca [YamahaDX]" <***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


  Do you have E! Board for the DX7S? Those instructions are for the mk2 board.

Sent from my iPad
On Aug 23, 2015, at 9:55 AM, "***@yahoo.com [YamahaDX]" <***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


  Hey Guys ,

Thanks for the response. Here is a link stating the Specs for the card I got, for both DX7II and DX7S

http://www.dx7.nl/downloads/greymatter%20uitleg%20voor%20gebruik%20in%20dx7IID%20en%20S%20uitvoering.pdf

Here is another another picture that can shine a little light. All through-out the manual for the Grey Matter E! they talk about how to use the boards features in a DX7II and DX7S because of the screen being smaller.


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[Daniel Forró [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

If DX7 II E! card can be installed in DX7s (which is not quite clear
from that document, but it can be so), then it can't differ too much
from the installation in DX7 II. It must be physically possible to
replace with it some two neighboring IC's. Maybe they have different
numbering as numbers of IC's in DX7s can differ. Also numbers of other
chips described in E! installation manual can differ but IC's and pins
should be the same.

That means if there's not possible to find installation manual for E!
and DX7s, it would be helpful to find Service manual for DX7s and by
comparison find which IC's should be used for connecting cables from
E! card. Their function in the circuit must correspond with that one
in DX7 II. I think this could work.

But still there's a question if really E! card for DX7 II can be used
in DX7s. There's very very small possibility there was special card
for DX7s...

Another problem: it seems that Service Manual for DX7s is also very
rare, I can't find it...

Daniel Forro

Post by Chris Benoit ***@yahoo.com [YamahaDX]
Hey Wes,
Yes I do, but when I look at the instructions the IC chips do not
line up with the schematic. I posted another document that says that
the DX7S has a separate set of instructions and they are very hard
to find at the moment.

[Wes Garland [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

The way I read that manual, there is a separate E! Board for the DX7s --
although I suppose the manual could be poorly worded.

That said, at the very least I think you would need an E! With ROMs dating
after the release of the 7s.

Wes

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 23, 2015, at 20:28, "Daniel Forró ***@yahoo.com [YamahaDX]" <
***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



If DX7 II E! card can be installed in DX7s (which is not quite clear from
that document, but it can be so), then it can't differ too much from the
installation in DX7 II. It must be physically possible to replace with it
some two neighboring IC's. Maybe they have different numbering as numbers
of IC's in DX7s can differ. Also numbers of other chips described in E!
installation manual can differ but IC's and pins should be the same.

That means if there's not possible to find installation manual for E! and
DX7s, it would be helpful to find Service manual for DX7s and by comparison
find which IC's should be used for connecting cables from E! card. Their
function in the circuit must correspond with that one in DX7 II. I think
this could work.

But still there's a question if really E! card for DX7 II can be used in
DX7s. There's very very small possibility there was special card for DX7s...

Another problem: it seems that Service Manual for DX7s is also very rare, I
can't find it...

Daniel Forro


On Aug 24, 2015, at 12:05 AM, Chris Benoit ***@yahoo.com [YamahaDX]
wrote:



Hey Wes,

Yes I do, but when I look at the instructions the IC chips do not line up
with the schematic. I posted another document that says that the DX7S has a
separate set of instructions and they are very hard to find at the moment.

[Alice [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Opps, i didn'r know there was a version for DX7s, sorry
Good luck!
Carlo

Inviato da iPad

If DX7 II E! card can be installed in DX7s (which is not quite clear from that document, but it can be so), then it can't differ too much from the installation in DX7 II. It must be physically possible to replace with it some two neighboring IC's. Maybe they have different numbering as numbers of IC's in DX7s can differ. Also numbers of other chips described in E! installation manual can differ but IC's and pins should be the same.
That means if there's not possible to find installation manual for E! and DX7s, it would be helpful to find Service manual for DX7s and by comparison find which IC's should be used for connecting cables from E! card. Their function in the circuit must correspond with that one in DX7 II. I think this could work.
But still there's a question if really E! card for DX7 II can be used in DX7s. There's very very small possibility there was special card for DX7s...
Another problem: it seems that Service Manual for DX7s is also very rare, I can't find it...
Daniel Forro

Post by Chris Benoit ***@yahoo.com [YamahaDX]
Hey Wes,
Yes I do, but when I look at the instructions the IC chips do not line up with the schematic. I posted another document that says that the DX7S has a separate set of instructions and they are very hard to find at the moment.

[Daniel Forró [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

I didn't write there was such. Maybe.

But by comparison of service manuals and schematics for DX7 II and
DX7S it can be found if E! for DX7 II can be used for DX7S. If only we
can find service manual for DX7S...

Daniel Forro

Post by Alice ***@alice.it [YamahaDX]
Opps, i didn'r know there was a version for DX7s, sorry
Good luck!
Carlo
Inviato da iPad

Post by Daniel Forró ***@yahoo.com [YamahaDX]
If DX7 II E! card can be installed in DX7s (which is not quite
clear from that document, but it can be so), then it can't differ
too much from the installation in DX7 II. It must be physically
possible to replace with it some two neighboring IC's. Maybe they
have different numbering as numbers of IC's in DX7s can differ.
Also numbers of other chips described in E! installation manual can
differ but IC's and pins should be the same.
That means if there's not possible to find installation manual for
E! and DX7s, it would be helpful to find Service manual for DX7s
and by comparison find which IC's should be used for connecting
cables from E! card. Their function in the circuit must correspond
with that one in DX7 II. I think this could work.
But still there's a question if really E! card for DX7 II can be
used in DX7s. There's very very small possibility there was special
card for DX7s...
Another problem: it seems that Service Manual for DX7s is also very
rare, I can't find it...
Daniel Forro

[Eldred Pickett [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

I'm coming into this party late, sorry. I have an original DX7 with an E!
board. If I can find the installation manual, would it help? I come
across it every now and then, so it may be near the top of the stack of
papers/books...

Eldred

Post by Wes Garland ***@page.ca [YamahaDX]
If DX7 II E! card can be installed in DX7s (which is not quite clear from
that document, but it can be so), then it can't differ too much from the
installation in DX7 II. It must be physically possible to replace with it
some two neighboring IC's. Maybe they have different numbering as numbers
of IC's in DX7s can differ. Also numbers of other chips described in E!
installation manual can differ but IC's and pins should be the same.
That means if there's not possible to find installation manual for E! and
DX7s, it would be helpful to find Service manual for DX7s and by comparison
find which IC's should be used for connecting cables from E! card. Their
function in the circuit must correspond with that one in DX7 II. I think
this could work.
But still there's a question if really E! card for DX7 II can be used in
DX7s. There's very very small possibility there was special card for DX7s...
Another problem: it seems that Service Manual for DX7s is also very rare,
I can't find it...
Daniel Forro
Hey Wes,
Yes I do, but when I look at the instructions the IC chips do not line up
with the schematic. I posted another document that says that the DX7S has a
separate set of instructions and they are very hard to find at the moment.

[Daniel Forró [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

That one is different than E! board for DX7 II.

And after some discussion it looks like DX7S had its own E! board,
different from DX7 II.

Daniel Forro

Post by Eldred Pickett ***@gmail.com [YamahaDX]
I'm coming into this party late, sorry. I have an original DX7 with
an E! board. If I can find the installation manual, would it help?
I come across it every now and then, so it may be near the top of
the stack of papers/books...
Eldred

[Eldred Pickett [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Ah, ok.
<insert Emily Litella voice>
Nevermind...

Eldred

Post by Daniel Forró ***@yahoo.com [YamahaDX]
That one is different than E! board for DX7 II.
And after some discussion it looks like DX7S had its own E! board,
different from DX7 II.
Daniel Forro
I'm coming into this party late, sorry. I have an original DX7 with an E!
board. If I can find the installation manual, would it help? I come
across it every now and then, so it may be near the top of the stack of
papers/books...
Eldred

[msc1958 [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

I agree with Daniel, it should work. Unless the manual for the E! Card is incorrect, the DX7II E! card should work with the DX7S. The "alternate" button press sequences for the DX7S are clearly stated in the E! Manual after the sequences for the DX7II. Good luck and keep us updated. :-)

Regards,

🎞 Mark 🎶

<*)))>{ "Make a joyful noise unto the LORD, all ye lands." Psalms 100:1

Sent from my iPad

[Daniel Forró [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

You are right, now I have again read manuals. That means there's the
same card for DX7 II and DX7S (with very high probability).

And I did one mistake - unlike E! card for DX7 this card doesn't
replace two original IC's in sockets, but there's a ribbon cable with
connector which replaces one original IC.

Daniel Forro

Post by msc1958 ***@yahoo.com [YamahaDX]
I agree with Daniel, it should work. Unless the manual for the E!
Card is incorrect, the DX7II E! card should work with the DX7S. The
"alternate" button press sequences for the DX7S are clearly stated
in the E! Manual after the sequences for the DX7II. Good luck and
keep us updated. :-)
Regards,
🎞 Mark 🎶

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

While the E! hardware is probably identical for the DX7ii and DX7s, the operating system ROMs required are certainly different. I have a DX7iifd with E! fitted and have dumped the V1.20 ROM set (the last release). It's specific to the DX7ii, I can tell because of the menus - they're laid out for the 40x2 display, not the 16x2 of the DX7s.

You'll need to find an E! card with the specific ROMs for the DX7s. I for one have never seen such a card.

[Daniel Boles [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

the idea of a separate E being required for the DX7s implies the E doesn't
intelligently determine which model it's in and adjust its commands
accordingly. I think it probably does - as it already has to do this
between the D/FD anyway to hide the irrelevant disk options.

The manual makes no mention of separate E firmware being required between
models. I might well be wrong, but I've not seen any evidence of a special
version of E is required.


Barring that, fitting this E to an S should be as simple as identifying the
parts referenced for the II D/FD and substituting them in the S. It's very
unlikely that there'll be any ambiguity among those.


(From what I can tell, rather than being a total reprogramming like the mk1
E - the mk II E is more of a middle-man that sits between the user and the
original ROM, which I believe gets left in place. It seems to retain all
the original features - although it accidentally breaks a couple of them...
Anyway, this mechanism would make it even easier to support the S too.)

[Daniel Forró [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Post by Daniel Boles ***@gmail.com [YamahaDX]
the idea of a separate E being required for the DX7s implies the E
doesn't intelligently determine which model it's in and adjust its
commands accordingly. I think it probably does - as it already has
to do this between the D/FD anyway to hide the irrelevant disk
options.

Who knows how this is done... for sure they had to solve this somehow.

Post by Daniel Boles ***@gmail.com [YamahaDX]
The manual makes no mention of separate E firmware being required
between models. I might well be wrong, but I've not seen any
evidence of a special version of E is required.

Yes, it looks so.

Post by Daniel Boles ***@gmail.com [YamahaDX]
Barring that, fitting this E to an S should be as simple as
identifying the parts referenced for the II D/FD and substituting
them in the S. It's very unlikely that there'll be any ambiguity
among those.

Exactly what I think. Only numbering of IC's can differ, maybe DX7S
has less IC's.

Now I have studied schematics for DX7 II D/FD and found where E!
cables should be connected:

Green cable (signal A15 - Address 15 line)
IC40/pin 1 which is the same as MPU IC16/pin 34
(IC40 is TC40H004P - inverter, there are three on the mainboard)

Brown cable (signal R/W - Read/Write line)
IC12/pin 1 which is the same as IC33/pin 13 or MPU IC16/pin 61
IC12 is MC74HC245N - transceiver, only one on the mainboard)

Orange cable (signal *PON - ???)
IC25/pin 20 which is the same as IC26/pin 20 (CS1 line)
(Both IC's are TC5564PL-15 - SRAM 8Kx8, there are these two on the
mainboard, any of them can be used for connecting cable)

Red cable (signal VBATT - voltage from back-up battery)
IC25/pin 28 which is the same as IC26/pin 28
(see above, any of them can be used for connecting cable)

Black cable (signal EN - Enable line)
IC30/pin 5 which is the same as MPU IC16/pin 64 or IC28/pin 6
(IC30 is SN74HC10N - NAND, only one on the mainboard)

Just find these points on the mainboard of DX7S. Maybe the easiest way
would be to solder green, brown and black cables to MPU (there's only
one - HD63B03YP) to pins 34, 61 and 64, and orange and red cables to
SRAM 25 or 26 to pins 20 and 28. You can't make mistake here and it
should work :-)

Post by Daniel Boles ***@gmail.com [YamahaDX]
(From what I can tell, rather than being a total reprogramming like
the mk1 E - the mk II E is more of a middle-man that sits between
the user and the original ROM, which I believe gets left in place.

I don't think. According to the installation manual, the original
EPROM with OS goes away and is replaced by new OS on E! board (which
can have part of the original code inside).

Daniel Forro

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

I can tell you categorically that the E! ROM for the DX7ii has no support within it for the DX7s.

As I said in my previous post, I dumped the ROM using an EPROM reader. I wanted to fix a few bugs and disassembled/edited/assembled the code and burned a new ROM with my fixes in it. When I looked through the code I saw no support for the abbreviated menus required for the 16x2 lcd of the DX7s. (I'm an embedded software engineer of 20+ years experience btw.)

I know that the stock ROM for the DX7ii can intelligently switch between the d and fd versions, but that's just a matter of hiding the 'DISK' menu. Note how there's no support for the DX7s in that ROM either.

Sorry it's not what you want to hear, but those are the facts.

[Daniel Forró [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Now that's interesting!

So that remark in installation guide:

(the E! card for DX7S requires separate instructions)

means there was really special card for DX7S.

So maybe they just wanted to save some work and there's only one
Owner's Manual for E! for DX7II and DX7s - showing both bigger and
smaller LCD pictures.

Daniel Forro

Post by ***@yahoo.com [YamahaDX]
I can tell you categorically that the E! ROM for the DX7ii has no
support within it for the DX7s.
As I said in my previous post, I dumped the ROM using an EPROM
reader. I wanted to fix a few bugs and disassembled/edited/
assembled the code and burned a new ROM with my fixes in it. When I
looked through the code I saw no support for the abbreviated menus
required for the 16x2 lcd of the DX7s. (I'm an embedded software
engineer of 20+ years experience btw.)
I know that the stock ROM for the DX7ii can intelligently switch
between the d and fd versions, but that's just a matter of hiding
the 'DISK' menu. Note how there's no support for the DX7s in that
ROM either.
Sorry it's not what you want to hear, but those are the facts.

[Wes Garland [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

I thought the manual was pretty clear - "(the E! card for DX7S requires
separate instructions)" - means that there is exists, and least in the mind
of the manual-writer, an E! card for the DX7S. If the same card had been
used for both, he would have written, "(installation in the DX7S requires
separate instructons)".

paulxtr, thanks for jumping in, I was going based on mostly educated
guesswork, looking at the hardware differences between the two platforms it
was obvious to me that non-trivial changes would need to be made to the
ROMs, but I didn't know for sure what was in the code. It's great to have
hard data from someone who's disassembled them.

Wes

Post by Daniel Forró ***@yahoo.com [YamahaDX]
Now that's interesting!
(the E! card for DX7S requires separate instructions)
means there was really special card for DX7S.
So maybe they just wanted to save some work and there's only one
Owner's Manual for E! for DX7II and DX7s - showing both bigger and
smaller LCD pictures.
Daniel Forro

Post by ***@yahoo.com [YamahaDX]
I can tell you categorically that the E! ROM for the DX7ii has no
support within it for the DX7s.
As I said in my previous post, I dumped the ROM using an EPROM
reader. I wanted to fix a few bugs and disassembled/edited/
assembled the code and burned a new ROM with my fixes in it. When I
looked through the code I saw no support for the abbreviated menus
required for the 16x2 lcd of the DX7s. (I'm an embedded software
engineer of 20+ years experience btw.)
I know that the stock ROM for the DX7ii can intelligently switch
between the d and fd versions, but that's just a matter of hiding
the 'DISK' menu. Note how there's no support for the DX7s in that
ROM either.
Sorry it's not what you want to hear, but those are the facts.

[Daniel Boles [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

I'm not worried about how much experience anyone has! Though while we're
bragging, I've disassembled and patched several ROMS too. Yippee.

So the ROM you disassembled has no routine for scrolling in 16-char blocks
along the full 40-char buffers? That was how I assumed it was done.

This could be interpreted as supporting the POSSIBILITY that the firmware
is the same in all cases, but I don't care about the result either way, so
please don't feel you have to apologise in a patronising way.

[Daniel Forró [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

You are right, it works exactly in this way - for scrolling is used
Right Cursor. It's explained on page 10 of E! Owner's Manual.

Daniel Forro

Post by Daniel Boles ***@gmail.com [YamahaDX]
So the ROM you disassembled has no routine for scrolling in 16-char
blocks along the full 40-char buffers? That was how I assumed it was
done.
This could be interpreted as supporting the POSSIBILITY that the
firmware is the same in all cases, but I don't care about the result
either way, so please don't feel you have to apologise in a
patronising way.

[Grant B [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Posted by: paulxtr

/"As I said in my previous post, I dumped the ROM using an EPROM reader.
I wanted to fix a few bugs and disassembled/edited/assembled the code
and burned a new ROM with my fixes in it. When I looked through the code
I saw no support for the abbreviated menus required for the 16x2 lcd of
the DX7s. (I'm an embedded software engineer of 20+ years experience btw.)//
//
//I know that the stock ROM for the DX7ii can intelligently switch
between the d and fd versions, but that's just a matter of hiding the
'DISK' menu. Note how there's no support for the DX7s in that ROM either./"

That's great you were able to fix a few things. Would love to hear more
about that. I done a bit myself and it's a lot of work. Yeah regarding
the LCD menus, you can look at the ROM dumps mentioned here a week or so
ago. All related ROMs have the FDD menus in it.

GB

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Thanks Grant.

You're right: it's a lot of work trying to understand assembler code when there's no symbol table or comments!

I fixed two issues present in the 1.20 DX7ii E! ROM, and added a feature (from the DX7s, as it happens!)

1. The inability to pick a key for the preset microtuning tables. If you set the microtuning to, say, Pure (Major) then when you attempt to move the cursor to the 'Key' parameter the screen skips to another (unrelated) menu.

2. The storage routine for the 12-Tone tables is broken when saving to cartridge.

3. Added the ability to enter punctuation symbols when the text entry mode is set to lower case.

Item 1 really bugged me as the E! card had removed functionality which was present in the stock OS. Item 2 is more esoteric but intrigued me enough to investigate and fix. Item 3 was a trivial patch.

E! for the DX7ii replaces the stock OS. The chip you remove from the DX7ii (IC23) to fit the E! card is a 64kB ROM containg the Yamaha stock OS. The E! OS is contained on two 64kB ROMs consisting of a version of the Yamaha DX7ii OS patched with the E! functionality. The ROMs are bank switched, just like the original OS is - only 32kB of ROM is in the memory map at any given moment.

The first thing I did was to find out how the screen is drawn so I could get some debug messages to the outside world. The lcd is handled as a single line of 80 characters. The print to lcd routine is called with the location on screen to print to stored in X0083 and the string to print pointed to by the X register. All the menus (the usual Yamaha stuff and the additional E! ones) are stored in the E! ROM. Many menus on the DX7ii and the DX7s are different, for example, the Output Level menu. Look in the Yamaha manuals to see how different they are. Only the DX7ii version of the menu is in the V1.20 E! ROM. There's no code that takes the DX7ii menus and reformats them for a 16x2 display. That's why I know for a fact that the DX7s is not supported in the ROM. It's the same with the stock DX7ii ROM - no DX7s support.

I did have the idea of making the pattern generator more programmable and adding a patch randomizer but as I mentioned, my day gig is embedded programming and when I get home I like to do other stuff. One day, maybe.

[Chris Benoit [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

First off I want to thank everybody who has been taking part of this conversation, I really thought it was a long shot putting this out there. I really think this a great community and am grateful to have all of your input!!


On Wednesday, August 26, 2015 3:09 PM, "***@yahoo.com [YamahaDX]" <***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


  Thanks Grant.

You're right: it's a lot of work trying to understand assembler code when there's no symbol table or comments!

I fixed two issues present in the 1.20 DX7ii E! ROM, and added a feature (from the DX7s, as it happens!)

1. The inability to pick a key for the preset microtuning tables.  If you set the microtuning to, say, Pure (Major) then when you attempt to move the cursor to the 'Key' parameter the screen skips to another (unrelated) menu.

2. The storage routine for the 12-Tone tables is broken when saving to cartridge.

3. Added the ability to enter punctuation symbols when the text entry mode is set to lower case.

Item 1 really bugged me as the E! card had removed functionality which was present in the stock OS.  Item 2 is more esoteric but intrigued me enough to investigate and fix.  Item 3 was a trivial patch.

E! for the DX7ii replaces the stock OS.  The chip you remove from the DX7ii (IC23) to fit the E! card is a 64kB ROM containg the Yamaha stock OS.  The E! OS is contained on two 64kB ROMs consisting of a version of the Yamaha DX7ii OS patched with the E! functionality.  The ROMs are bank switched, just like the original OS is - only 32kB of ROM is in the memory map at any given moment.

The first thing I did was to find out how the screen is drawn so I could get some debug messages to the outside world.  The lcd is handled as a single line of 80 characters.  The print to lcd routine is called with the location on screen to print to stored in X0083 and the string to print pointed to by the X register.  All the menus (the usual Yamaha stuff and the additional E! ones) are stored in the E! ROM.   Many menus on the DX7ii and the DX7s are different, for example, the Output Level menu.  Look in the Yamaha manuals to see how different they are.  Only the DX7ii version of the menu is in the V1.20 E! ROM.  There's no code that takes the DX7ii menus and reformats them for a 16x2 display.  That's why I know for a fact that the DX7s is not supported in the ROM.  It's the same with the stock DX7ii ROM - no DX7s support.

I did have the idea of making the pattern generator more programmable and adding a patch randomizer but as I mentioned, my day gig is embedded programming and when I get home I like to do other stuff.  One day, maybe. #yiv9052459302 #yiv9052459302 -- #yiv9052459302ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv9052459302 #yiv9052459302ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv9052459302 #yiv9052459302ygrp-mkp #yiv9052459302hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv9052459302 #yiv9052459302ygrp-mkp #yiv9052459302ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv9052459302 #yiv9052459302ygrp-mkp .yiv9052459302ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv9052459302 #yiv9052459302ygrp-mkp .yiv9052459302ad p {margin:0;}#yiv9052459302 #yiv9052459302ygrp-mkp .yiv9052459302ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv9052459302 #yiv9052459302ygrp-sponsor #yiv9052459302ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv9052459302 #yiv9052459302ygrp-sponsor 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[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Just to liven this conversation up, I had recently contact someone who purchased a DX7II and they said they had installed it into a DX7S two years ago. But don't recall the process , figures right!

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

paulxtr - Do you have an ICE or just "burn and learn"? I know there are "universal" assemblers out there that support the 6303. Ugly. I had to change something once on the regular DX related to the LEDs and even that small project was painful (and I do embedded work too). I didn't try a disassembler for that, just read the opcodes off the CPU "programming card".

What kind of hardware do you program for in your day gig?

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Hi Grant,

I just burn and learn, although there's a lot of studying of code first. I use IDA Pro in the initial stage of code investigation - it's a great help even though you have to do a lot of hand-holding with it. Even then, it's tough work trying to decipher exactly what's going on.

I make no claim to having a full understanding of the code in the DX7ii, either in the stock OS or the E! OS. I've investigated small parts of it that I want to fix.

The day gig is digital video processing. It's bare-metal stuff, driving FPGAs and ASICs down at register level over arcane bus systems, such as i2c and spi. I used to code mainly in C/C++ but more and more it's embedded Java. I learned machine code back in the 8-bit Commodore 64 and BBC Micro days, so the 6303 processor code in the DX7ii is a bit of a blast from the past. Wish Yamaha had used the 6809 though, best 8-bit processor ever, imho.

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Post by ***@yahoo.com [YamahaDX]
Wish Yamaha had used the 6809 though, best 8-bit processor ever, imho.

+1!

I still have a bunch of 6809 books on my shelf. Loved that little bugger. Yamaha and Sequential used it. 68k was nice and clean too, though a big step up. If you haven't read this, you will LOVE it:

The Byte 6809 Articles | frakendirary http://tlindner.macmess.org/?page_id=119

http://tlindner.macmess.org/?page_id=119

The Byte 6809 Articles | frakendirary http://tlindner.macmess.org/?page_id=119 What is this? In the first three months of 1979 BYTE magazine published a series of articles describing the brand new microprocessor: the 6809.



View on tlindner.macmess.org http://tlindner.macmess.org/?page_id=119
Preview by Yahoo

[John McIntyre [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Post by ***@jps.net [YamahaDX]

Post by ***@yahoo.com [YamahaDX]
Wish Yamaha had used the 6809 though, best 8-bit processor ever, imho.

+1!
I still have a bunch of 6809 books on my shelf. Loved that little
bugger. Yamaha and Sequential used it. 68k was nice and clean too,
The Byte 6809 Articles | frakendirary
<http://tlindner.macmess.org/?page_id=119>
image <http://tlindner.macmess.org/?page_id=119>
The Byte 6809 Articles | frakendirary
<http://tlindner.macmess.org/?page_id=119>
What is this? In the first three months of 1979 BYTE magazine
published a series of articles describing the brand new
microprocessor: the 6809.
View on tlindner.macmess.org <http://tlindner.macmess.org/?page_id=119>
Preview by Yahoo

That can't really be from Byte, not with all those typos. What's the story?

But thank you for posting it.

John McIntyre
***@pa.msu.edu

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

And of course Fairlight used two 6809s operating back to back (using alternate phases of the system clock) in the legendary CMI series. But we're headed way off-topic now.

Regarding the MIDI In controller issue reported above, I've been contacted off-list explaining that it's not a bug.

"without the controller attached, the maximum display value is applied.
If a patch is programmed for controllers, they should be connected to the DX.
This can be confusing but I suppose it was meant this way.

Similar with Foot Control Vol=99"

So off the bug list it comes.

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

I meant to say that Yamaha had used the 6809 in other things. MEP4 off the top of my head.

[Wes Garland [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

I cut my teeth on C64 and other 8bit micros also. Had a super pet 9000 with
both a 6502 and a 6809. Totally awesome.

It's tempting to dig into the DX7, though! If there was a commented
disassembly available, it would be nearly impossible to resist!

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 28, 2015, at 14:04, "***@yahoo.com [YamahaDX]" <
***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



Hi Grant,

I just burn and learn, although there's a lot of studying of code first. I
use IDA Pro in the initial stage of code investigation - it's a great help
even though you have to do a lot of hand-holding with it. Even then, it's
tough work trying to decipher exactly what's going on.

I make no claim to having a full understanding of the code in the DX7ii,
either in the stock OS or the E! OS. I've investigated small parts of it
that I want to fix.

The day gig is digital video processing. It's bare-metal stuff, driving
FPGAs and ASICs down at register level over arcane bus systems, such as i2c
and spi. I used to code mainly in C/C++ but more and more it's embedded
Java. I learned machine code back in the 8-bit Commodore 64 and BBC Micro
days, so the 6303 processor code in the DX7ii is a bit of a blast from the
past. Wish Yamaha had used the 6809 though, best 8-bit processor ever,
imho.

[Daniel Boles [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

paulxtr - Ta for the info. Perchance could you also fix the bug where
edited velocity sensitivity is saved, but not applied to the keys until the
user performs a cycle of save/reload or compare/reedit? ...and then share a
copy? :-) I had no idea about the microtuning problem - that seems really
bad. Is there any way to apply a scale on the unmodified E? (e.g. with a
save/reload cycle again)

The most recent post where the user seems to recall moving an E from a D to
an S model is interesting, though I appreciate it's too anecdotal to really
support my original idea. Haha.

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

OK, I'll take a look at the velocity sensitivity issue.

I just tried on my DX7ii with E! and it's as you say, the edited velocity sensitivity value only becomes effective when you save/reload the patch.

As this is an issue with a voice parameter (not an E! parameter), I'd be interested to know if this bug is also present in the stock OS. Can anyone confirm? (saves me having to take the E! card out and put the original ROM back in). If it is, I'll have a go at fixing it in the stock OS too.

As to whether it's possible to work around the bug of being unable to change the key setting for the preset microtunings via the menu, I guess you could always alter it via a MIDI sysex message.

[Daniel Boles [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Paul - Cool, thanks.

I think I identified another bug in E! but need someone with (preferably
the latest) official ROM to confirm -

When the "MIDI In Control" accessed thru button 26 is set to apply
modulation - that modulation is added to the total - even when no MIDI In
Ctrlr is connected and even after you send a CC of the specified number
with value 0.

Here's an example: A lot of voices have 8 points of PMD set to be added by
the MIDI In CC. However I don't have anything connected to MIDI In, and
even after I connect something and send a 0 value to the corresponding CC,
that 8 points of PMD are still applied. This means I get artificially high
vibrato on affected voices until I manually edit the MIDI In PMD to 0.
Other sensitivities are affected too. The MIDI In CC appears to do nothing,
and the 'default' value set in button 26 - which should be the max if that
CC were set to 127 - is always added to the other controllers.

Can anyone confirm whether this happens on the official ROM?

If it's a bug of E!, that would be another great thing to fix - assuming a
patched ROM could be released.

Thanks in advance to anyone who has info on this.

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Hi Daniel,

I certainly add the MIDI modulation controller issue to the list. As you say, it would be great help if someone could confirm if this bug is present in a later Yamaha OS, say 1.9.

I've already had confirmation off-list that the velocity sensitivity issue is fixed in the 1.9 OS, which is a great help.

[Daniel Boles [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Did anyone ever actually test the below, ideally on both E! and original
DX7 II models? It'll only take a few minutes if someone can give it a try.

Far as I can tell, someone just pointed me at a different line in the
manual and said 'so you were doing it wrong', when I have read the manual
exhaustively and was talking about something else... That wasn't helpful
for me or the wider community's knowledge around this possible issue.

I say "possible issue" - it's definitely an issue, but what we stand to
learn is (A) whether it is only caused by the E! card and (B) whether
there's any way to fix it.

Your help spending a few minutes to test this would be appreciated. Thanks.




---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Daniel Boles <***@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: Grey Matter E! Installation for DX7S
To: ***@yahoogroups.com


Paul - Cool, thanks.

*I think I identified another bug in E! *but need someone with (preferably
the latest) official ROM to confirm -

When *the "MIDI In Control" accessed thru button 26* is set to apply
modulation - that modulation is added to the total - even when no MIDI In
Ctrlr is connected and even after you send a CC of the specified number
with value 0.

Here's an example: A lot of voices have *8 points of PMD set to be added by
the MIDI In CC. However I don't have anything connected to MIDI In, and
even after I connect something and send a 0 value to the corresponding CC,
that 8 points of PMD are still applied. This means I get artificially high
vibrato* on affected voices until I manually edit the MIDI In PMD to 0.
Other sensitivities are affected too. *The MIDI In CC appears to do
nothing, and the 'default' value* set in button 26 - which should be the
max if that CC were set to 127 - *is always added* to the other controllers.

Can anyone confirm whether this happens on the official ROM?

If it's a bug of E!, that would be another great thing to fix - assuming a
patched ROM could be released.

Thanks in advance to anyone who has info on this.

[Wes Garland [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Is testing on an E!-equipped -II-FD at all useful?

Wes

Post by Daniel Boles ***@gmail.com [YamahaDX]
Did anyone ever actually test the below, ideally on both E! and original
DX7 II models? It'll only take a few minutes if someone can give it a try.
Far as I can tell, someone just pointed me at a different line in the
manual and said 'so you were doing it wrong', when I have read the manual
exhaustively and was talking about something else... That wasn't helpful
for me or the wider community's knowledge around this possible issue.
I say "possible issue" - it's definitely an issue, but what we stand to
learn is (A) whether it is only caused by the E! card and (B) whether
there's any way to fix it.
Your help spending a few minutes to test this would be appreciated. Thanks.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: Grey Matter E! Installation for DX7S
Paul - Cool, thanks.
*I think I identified another bug in E! *but need someone with
(preferably the latest) official ROM to confirm -
When *the "MIDI In Control" accessed thru button 26* is set to apply
modulation - that modulation is added to the total - even when no MIDI In
Ctrlr is connected and even after you send a CC of the specified number
with value 0.
Here's an example: A lot of voices have *8 points of PMD set to be added
by the MIDI In CC. However I don't have anything connected to MIDI In, and
even after I connect something and send a 0 value to the corresponding CC,
that 8 points of PMD are still applied. This means I get artificially high
vibrato* on affected voices until I manually edit the MIDI In PMD to 0.
Other sensitivities are affected too. *The MIDI In CC appears to do
nothing, and the 'default' value* set in button 26 - which should be the
max if that CC were set to 127 - *is always added* to the other controllers.
Can anyone confirm whether this happens on the official ROM?
If it's a bug of E!, that would be another great thing to fix - assuming a
patched ROM could be released.
Thanks in advance to anyone who has info on this.

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

are there any news about the velocity sensitivity bug ?

[Martin Tarenskeen [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Post by ***@yahoo.de [YamahaDX]
are there any news about the velocity sensitivity bug ?

Please explain. Is your question related to the Subject you are replying
to, or did you just hit the reply button without changing the subject?

MT

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

It is related to the post of "Daniel Boles" - "Perchance could you also fix the bug where edited velocity sensitivity is saved, but not applied to the keys until the user performs a cycle of save/reload or compare/reedit? "

I have a DX7II with Grey Matter E! and I stumbled across this issue - maybe someone found a solution in the meantime ?


It's strange that nobody (i only found one person in the web talking about) ever noticed this problem during the last 30 years, the book of "Alexander Publishing" by Steve Preskitt from 1989 about E! contains an official Buglist of the latest E! version - this is not mentioned.
And it's a very annoying bug.

[Martin Tarenskeen [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

It's strange that nobody (i only found one person in the web talking about)  ever noticed this problem during the last 30 years, the book of
"Alexander Publishing" by Steve Preskitt from 1989 about E! contains an official Buglist of the latest E! version - this is not mentioned.
And it's a very annoying bug.

You would be surprised how many bugs - in different fields - exist without
anyone ever noticing. Many many people have used DX7 synths for years
without ever trying anything else than just playing factory presets. Not
much can go wrong then. And if people bump into a bug they often think
"Maybe I am doing something wrong", or "This synth sucks. I sell it and
I will buy a new one", or "A reset helps".

Few people take the effort to carefully write a detailed bugreport and
then send it to the developers so that they can fix it, or sharing it with
a user forum to find solutions.

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

I'm afraid you are right - most users just used preset sounds and programming the DX7 was rocket science for them.
But there were many thousands of sounds made through the years, and a lot of E! expansions were sold, even from YAMAHA. Strange that no one stumbled across that bug, as it occurs not only on while editing from the panel - also while programming via MIDI/Sysex the velocity-sensitivty is not editable.

Or is it not a common bug on all E! boards, maybe just on a certain Software revision (1.20 in my case) . Does anyone know, if V 1.17 is affected too ?

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

OK - problem solved - finally ! i had the chance to get an old E! board with V.1.19 and this board doesn't have the velocity-sensitivity bug. That means, that this issue was introduced in V.1.20 and does not appear on earlier versions of E!.
And this could explain, why this bug is relatively unknown, as obviously many (if not the most) of the E!-boards contain older FW-versions (i found some mentions of 1.7, 1.18, 1.19 and 1.20 on the web -> at least a minimum of four released softwares)


To be absolutely sure, that it's not a hardware-problem, i extracted the binaries and duplicated the 1.19 Eproms and then equipped my other E!-board with them - works perfect too - without the bug.


if anyone wants to "downgrade" ;-) here are the V.1.19 ROM-images:


www.helfried-wildenhain.de/DX7II/E!U1_119_DX72.BIN


www.helfried-wildenhain.de/DX7II/E!U2_119_DX72.BIN




and these are the ROMS of the latest - but "buggy - version 1.20


www.helfried-wildenhain.de/DX7II/E!U1_120_DX72.BIN


www.helfried-wildenhain.de/DX7II/E!U2_120_DX72.BIN

[Daniel Boles [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Great to hear the MIDI In CC bug can be checked, thanks.

Was the velocity bug ever present in the official OS? I got the impression
it was an E regression, but having only owned an E-modded IIFD, I've not
been able to check either way.

As for old CPUs, I'm afraid I'm very biased to the Z80 where 8-bit ones are
concerned. :D Love that chip. I've never delved into 6809 - though I've
done a bit of 68000 and it was intriguing. Anything with an interesting
architecture that mandates clever programming (due to speed/space) earns my
interest. Which kinda rules out modern CPUs, though I like reading about
them on a summary level.

Didn't Yamaha's typical 6x03 only have 3 main registers or something like
that? I've only glanced over datasheets and never got around to
disassembling anything.... yet!

[Daniel Boles [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Hi Paul,

I'd already seen that info elsewhere but assumed it only applied to
physical controllers - i.e. FCs - not MIDI.

This is because a disconnected FC might be wired up so that it's read/ADCd
as 0 - but a disconnected MIDI In device is not read as anything - just the
absence of digital data. Do you see what I mean?

Anyway, even if I temporarily connect e.g. a PC with MIDI-Ox, and send
various CCs to the corresponding CC# - no change occurs whatsoever.

The MIDI In CC function in the E appears from my tests to be totally
nonfunctional and always adds its modulation levels to the baselines set in
the voice.

Might you be able to reopen this one tentatively until some more owners
with different firmwares can test?

[Daniel Boles [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

The story is simple: transcription and/or OCR + the occasional human error.

If you look at the PDF in something that offers text selection, you'll see
that it's had one or both of those applied. It's not just a photo of the
original pages. Hence, errors can creep into either of those processes.
That doesn't mean it's fraudulent

[John McIntyre [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Post by Daniel Boles ***@gmail.com [YamahaDX]
The story is simple: transcription and/or OCR + the occasional human error.
If you look at the PDF in something that offers text selection, you'll
see that it's had one or both of those applied. It's not just a photo
of the original pages. Hence, errors can creep into either of those
processes. That doesn't mean it's fraudulent

Thank you for explaining that.

John McIntyre
***@pa.msu.edu

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Hi Dx people. IÂŽm new about this blogue. Hope you can help me


I bought the E! board for the DX7IID and i have some cartrigdes like the Decay Group, Michael Boddicker, Studio Professional, and some others but i donÂŽt have any RAM. I saw in manual that the last step is to load the RAM4 into the DX7. Can you please help me? May i install the E! board just with my ROM?

Thank you very much


the RAM4 into the DX7. Can you please help me?

[Daniel Forró [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

It's rather unclear from the manual what to do exactly. It's not
explained in detail...

To load an empty bank? Why? And if it should include sound data, you
could use any ROM for it...

I didn't find any explanation if DX7 with installed E! card is still
compatible with original ROM and RAM cartridges... Or if RAM4 must be
reformatted for use with E!... Or if such cartridge is still
compatible with standard DX7...

And that strange note that you should load data from RAM4 "with
system"? Which system?

Wasn't it some specially formatted RAM4 from Grey Matter which came
together with the card? There's no mention about it...

So only somebody who has E! and some more direct knowledge can answer
such questions...

Daniel Forro

P.S.: Could you please write more details about your cartridge
collections? Would you share its data or exchange with other
collectors among us?

Hi Dx people. IŽm new about this blogue. Hope you can help me
I bought the E! board for the DX7IID and i have some cartrigdes like
the Decay Group, Michael Boddicker, Studio Professional, and some
others but i donŽt have any RAM. I saw in manual that the last step
is to load the RAM4 into the DX7. Can you please help me? May i
install the E! board just with my ROM?
Thank you very much

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Hi Daniel

I have posted some photos of the cartridge. I will share the patches for shure but first i need to install the grey matter board, than install a decent software, than learn how to use it so i can transfer synsx files.


I will need some help in this also.


Thanks for your reply. I kwon now that, there's no need to load the RAM4. The E! have 4 banks of memory, and that's why they recomend the RAM4 with your backup patches...


Best regards


---In ***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote :

It's rather unclear from the manual what to do exactly. It's not explained in detail...


To load an empty bank? Why? And if it should include sound data, you could use any ROM for it...


I didn't find any explanation if DX7 with installed E! card is still compatible with original ROM and RAM cartridges... Or if RAM4 must be reformatted for use with E!... Or if such cartridge is still compatible with standard DX7...


And that strange note that you should load data from RAM4 "with system"? Which system?


Wasn't it some specially formatted RAM4 from Grey Matter which came together with the card? There's no mention about it...


So only somebody who has E! and some more direct knowledge can answer such questions...


Daniel Forro


P.S.: Could you please write more details about your cartridge collections? Would you share its data or exchange with other collectors among us?




Sep 18, 2015, at 7:11 PM, ***@... mailto:***@... [YamahaDX] wrote:

Hi Dx people. IÂŽm new about this blogue. Hope you can help me


I bought the E! board for the DX7IID and i have some cartrigdes like the Decay Group, Michael Boddicker, Studio Professional, and some others but i donÂŽt have any RAM. I saw in manual that the last step is to load the RAM4 into the DX7. Can you please help me? May i install the E! board just with my ROM?

Thank you very much

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

A ROM should work fine.

[Daniel Forró [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Yes, I have found this info in the other version of E! installation
manual. This is more logical than using RAM4 :-)

Daniel Forro

Post by ***@yahoo.com [YamahaDX]
A ROM should work fine.
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