[YamahaDX] Greetings and a Newbie Question (Software Patches)

[geoff baltan [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Hello all -

I am new to the DX-List and new to the synthesizers in general, but
excited about the prospect of programming for it.
I'm currently in the process of acquiring a DX7, but I am curious: Is
it possible to change patch presets in real-time via software, or does
it require some sort of initialization?


Cheers!
Geoff

[Brian [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Hi Geoff,

A program change through MIDI will change your patch on the fly.
No doubt others will have more to add.

Regards,
Brian.


From: geoff baltan ***@gmail.com [YamahaDX]
Sent: Friday, 31 August 2018 2:20 PM
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [YamahaDX] Greetings and a Newbie Question (Software Patches)

Hello all -

I am new to the DX-List and new to the synthesizers in general, but
excited about the prospect of programming for it.
I'm currently in the process of acquiring a DX7, but I am curious: Is
it possible to change patch presets in real-time via software, or does
it require some sort of initialization?


Cheers!
Geoff


------------------------------------
Posted by: geoff baltan <***@gmail.com>
------------------------------------


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[danforcz [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Welcome on the board.

It depends what you mean by changing patch presets.

You can select presets in real time by Program Change command. The instrument needs some time for processing, and if the previous sound has long release, it will be cut and there will be a silence between two different patches.

If you mean real time editing, it’s possible by SysEx commands, no initialization is required, it will change actual selected sound in edit buffer. but it has some problems, for example:

- if the sound data are not loaded into editing software, it will not no actual values of parameters, so there can be big jumps of value when starting to change it

- editing some parameters will cause abrupt changes in the sound (like algorithm select). The whole concept of FM synthesis was not intended and invented for real time control, also SysEx control is not without some latency when lot of commands are received in short time. Such old instruments didn’t have fast CPU
 So IMHO there’s no sense to invent and use analog type of hardware programmers. DX7 can’t process more than one parameter anyway.

- other parameters have jumps between steps, it’s not continuous change (like coarse and fine tuning of operator)

- lot of parameters are connected together and interact, you have to know well what you are doing, or some changes will be not recognizable

- to hear to change, the key must be retriggered

And the last remark - DX7 and generally Yamaha algorithm synthesis (called sometimes wrongly FM synthesis) are not the easiest system to understand, when you are beginner. It asks lot of study and experience to get any usable sound from it when you start from initialized patch and want to get some concrete result. Even not with supporting software editor, nothing to say about the editing patch directly on the instrument. Fortunately there are thousands of free patches available, so you don’t need to lose your precious time trying to get something usable from it. But of course you can try it, if you have enough time, motivation and courage. It’s a challenge.

Daniel Forro

Post by geoff baltan ***@gmail.com [YamahaDX]
Hello all -
I am new to the DX-List and new to the synthesizers in general, but
excited about the prospect of programming for it.
I'm currently in the process of acquiring a DX7, but I am curious: Is
it possible to change patch presets in real-time via software, or does
it require some sort of initialization?
Cheers!
Geoff

[Martin Tarenskeen [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Post by danforcz ***@yahoo.com [YamahaDX]
- if the sound data are not loaded into editing software, it will not no actual values of parameters, so there can be big jumps of value when
starting to change it
- editing some parameters will cause abrupt changes in the sound (like algorithm select). The whole concept of FM synthesis was not intended and
invented for real time control, also SysEx control is not without some latency when lot of commands are received in short time. Such old
instruments didn’t have fast CPU
 So IMHO there’s no sense to invent and use analog type of hardware programmers. DX7 can’t process more than one
parameter anyway.
- other parameters have jumps between steps, it’s not continuous change (like coarse and fine tuning of operator)
- lot of parameters are connected together and interact, you have to know well what you are doing, or some changes will be not recognizable
- to hear to change, the key must be retriggered

A related question:
Does anyone have experience with using Dexed VST integrated in DAW
software recordings instead of real DX7 hardware?

(I don't that's why I'm asking)

It does a good job emulating the DX7 sounds. But does it also emulate the
problems that the real vintage hardware DX7 had? Or has it stepped up to
current standards and does it make realtime parameter twaking and
automatisation possible just like with modern soft- and hardware synths?

MT

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Martin,

I haven't tried Dexed in a DAW, but I have tried it with savihost, which provides a way of using a single VST as a stand-alone application... I ought to try it in Cantabile, because that lets me assign hardware controls to on-screen ones, normally I'll add that to my list :)

They didn't implement the live response to breath control, so I lost interest quite quickly, but my impression of it was that it was a mathematical model of how the FM engine of a DX7 is meant to work, without modelling the hardware quirks of an actual DX7.

They did provide two resolution settings though - DX7-like or better, which I assume goes some way to simulating the internal and DAC resolution.

I only have a TX7 to compare it with, and i only use the headphones output because the line out socket doesn't work on mine - I could mend it, but I've never felt the need - so, my perception is altered a little by having the built in headphones amp in between, acting as some sort of static filter.

Based on that, the envelopes in Dexed are too clicky / snappy, and the sound is cleaner, by comparison - I don't remember hearing any background noise or hiss.

Someone with an actual DX7 would be better placed to answer though - ideally comparing the line out from the DX7 with line out from the PC, via the same amp.

- Andy

[danforcz [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Welcome on the board.

It depends what you mean by changing patch presets.

You can select presets in real time by Program Change command. The instrument needs some time for processing, and if the previous sound has long release, it will be cut and there will be a silence between two different patches.

If you mean real time editing, it’s possible by SysEx commands, no initialization is required, it will change actual selected sound in edit buffer. but it has some problems, for example:

- if the sound data are not loaded into editing software, it will not no actual values of parameters, so there can be big jumps of value when starting to change it

- editing some parameters will cause abrupt changes in the sound (like algorithm select). The whole concept of FM synthesis was not intended and invented for real time control, also SysEx control is not without some latency when lot of commands are received in short time. Such old instruments didn’t have fast CPU
 So IMHO there’s no sense to invent and use analog type of hardware programmers. DX7 can’t process more than one parameter anyway.

- other parameters have jumps between steps, it’s not continuous change (like coarse and fine tuning of operator)

- lot of parameters are connected together and interact, you have to know well what you are doing, or some changes will be not recognizable

- to hear to change, the key must be retriggered

And the last remark - DX7 and generally Yamaha algorithm synthesis (called sometimes wrongly FM synthesis) are not the easiest system to understand, when you are beginner. It asks lot of study and experience to get any usable sound from it when you start from initialized patch and want to get some concrete result. Even not with supporting software editor, nothing to say about the editing patch directly on the instrument. Fortunately there are thousands of free patches available, so you don’t need to lose your precious time trying to get something usable from it. But of course you can try it, if you have enough time, motivation and courage. It’s a challenge.

Daniel Forro

Post by geoff baltan ***@gmail.com [YamahaDX]
Hello all -
I am new to the DX-List and new to the synthesizers in general, but
excited about the prospect of programming for it.
I'm currently in the process of acquiring a DX7, but I am curious: Is
it possible to change patch presets in real-time via software, or does
it require some sort of initialization?
Cheers!
Geoff