[YamahaDX] Yamaha WT11 factory patches / performances, on a TX81Z?

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Rather than buy a WT11, which I've considered, is it possible to import the factory patches / performances to my TX81Z?

As I understand it, the TX81Z (which I own) has a very similar architecture to the WT11 (which i don't). They're both 4OP FM, though the WT11 also has a pitch envelope.

Does anyone have the WT11 patches / performances as sysex? I understand they're in ROM, so no one who owns a WT11 would need them, but can they be exported as sysex, and has it been done?

[Martin Tarenskeen [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Post by ***@ntlworld.com [YamahaDX]
Rather than buy a WT11, which I've considered, is it possible to import the factory patches / performances to my TX81Z?
As I understand it, the TX81Z (which I own) has a very similar architecture to the WT11 (which i don't).  They're both 4OP FM, though the WT11
also has a pitch envelope.
Does anyone have the WT11 patches / performances as sysex?  I understand they're in ROM, so no one who owns a WT11 would need them, but can they
be exported as sysex, and has it been done?

If anyone has performances+voicedata sysex dumps from the WT11 factory
sounds: I am interested too.

I did find 32 patches from WT11 factory voicebank (VMEM), without
performance (PMEM) data and without descriptive patchnames.

In the WT11 descriptive presetnames are in PMEM data only so it seems.

The PMEM2 data also adds DSP FX settings. Would be nice to have these data
to convert to V50/YS200 DSP effects.

Anyway what I have now, is what I have attached.

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

That's great. Thanks, Martin. I'll have a play with those soon.

I'll let you know if I come across any more.

- Andy

[danforcz [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

I have WT11 but no time recently to save data. I will try it maybe next week


Daniel Forro

[Attachment(s) <x-msg://1/#TopText> from Martin Tarenskeen included below]

Post by ***@ntlworld.com [YamahaDX]
Rather than buy a WT11, which I've considered, is it possible to import the factory patches / performances to my TX81Z?
As I understand it, the TX81Z (which I own) has a very similar architecture to the WT11 (which i don't). They're both 4OP FM, though the WT11
also has a pitch envelope.
Does anyone have the WT11 patches / performances as sysex? I understand they're in ROM, so no one who owns a WT11 would need them, but can they
be exported as sysex, and has it been done?

If anyone has performances+voicedata sysex dumps from the WT11 factory
sounds: I am interested too.
I did find 32 patches from WT11 factory voicebank (VMEM), without
performance (PMEM) data and without descriptive patchnames.
In the WT11 descriptive presetnames are in PMEM data only so it seems.
The PMEM2 data also adds DSP FX settings. Would be nice to have these data
to convert to V50/YS200 DSP effects.
Anyway what I have now, is what I have attached.
--
MT
Attachment(s) from Martin Tarenskeen | View attachments on the web  <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/YamahaDX/attachments/291832761;_ylc=X3oDMTJwdnJ2OWRrBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI4MDg3OQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwMzIxNDQEc2VjA2F0dGFjaG1lbnQEc2xrA3ZpZXdPbldlYgRzdGltZQMxNTI4ODM2NDAy>
1 of 1 File(s)
WT11.syx <https://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/280879/801260223/name/WT11%2Esyx>

[danforcz [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Does somebody has DX11/V2 test saved to RAM4 cartridge?

I just purchased nice V2 with dead back-up battery, so test code in RAM was lost. The only possibility after the changing battery is to load the test from the cartridge.

I’m only afraid there are not many DX11/V2 with the original battery and working test inside
 So the only chance is somebody has saved test to the cartridge and keep it. Yes, I know, it’s very low probability there’s some owner with both instrument + cartridge, clever enough to do it (and wasting cartridge just for this purpose) :-) But who knows, maybe some service technician has it still
 I don’t expect Yamaha has it after so many years.

It’s not so important, but it would be good to have it. This is the only Yamaha instrument which has such strange way of diagnostics
 (Then I know only Kurzweil K250 where it’s necessary to change the OS Eprom to perform test
)

Thanks in advance for any idea


Daniel Forro

[Martin Tarenskeen [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Post by danforcz ***@yahoo.com [YamahaDX]
I just purchased nice V2 with dead back-up battery, so test code in RAM was lost. The only possibility after the changing battery is to load the
test from the cartridge.

Test code in battery dependend RAM ?
Sounds like a really bad idea to me.
What were those Yamaha engineers thinking back then ?

Reminds me of an error message form the very old days of computing - I
can't remember if it's true story or a joke:

"MOUSE IS NOT REACTING. PLEASE CLICK ON [OK] TO CONTINUE"

:-)

MT

[danforcz [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Yes, Martin, it’s very strange but it’s really so. The worse is there’s no access to this area of RAM, only by loading data from RAM4 cartridge.

They must have a bad day to have such idea.

Daniel

P.S.: I’m glad to be back again - after some OSX update about two months ago I couldn’t send any message to yahoo groups, all were refused. Or maybe the problem was at other place, but now it works again when I tried after the return from my longer trip to Europe...

Post by Martin Tarenskeen ***@zonnet.nl [YamahaDX]

Post by danforcz ***@yahoo.com [YamahaDX]
I just purchased nice V2 with dead back-up battery, so test code in RAM was lost. The only possibility after the changing battery is to load the
test from the cartridge.

Test code in battery dependend RAM ?
Sounds like a really bad idea to me.
What were those Yamaha engineers thinking back then ?
Reminds me of an error message form the very old days of computing - I
"MOUSE IS NOT REACTING. PLEASE CLICK ON [OK] TO CONTINUE"
:-)
MT

[Martin Tarenskeen [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Post by danforcz ***@yahoo.com [YamahaDX]
Yes, Martin, it’s very strange but it’s really so. The worse is there’s no access to this area of RAM, only by loading data from RAM4 cartridge.

These RAM4 cartridges are battery powered too I think?

[danforcz [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Yes, you are right, so it can be also problem if it was not used for long time


Daniel Forro

Post by Martin Tarenskeen ***@zonnet.nl [YamahaDX]

Post by danforcz ***@yahoo.com [YamahaDX]
Yes, Martin, it’s very strange but it’s really so. The worse is there’s no access to this area of RAM, only by loading data from RAM4 cartridge.

These RAM4 cartridges are battery powered too I think?
--
MT

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Thanks, Daniel.

No rush :)

- Andy

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

I put the WT11 patches on my TX81Z and played them a bit. Some of them are quite good. Thanks again, Martin.

Looking at the manual, I realized they were the A bank (woodwinds), so I've typed the patch names in, using JSynthLib, and exported it again, as sysex. Hopefully that works with anything that can send sysex (e.g. MIDI-OX).

Some of the choices for the base octave are a bit odd, but that's easily allowed for by playing them with the WX5 - which makes it easy to transpose up or down in octaves, with a couple of button presses. I'll probably edit them so the defaults make more sense to me.

It would be nice to try the brass ones (B bank) too. Is it possible to get those out of the ROM, or only the A bank?

I see in the WT11 manual is says the I bank (the editable one) initially contains the contents of bank A, so I guess that's why that was available.

- Andy

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Okay, I now realize at least two of the patch names in the WT11 manual are in the wrong order, so I've swapped BassoonDuo with Chime/Oboe, and exported them again (attached).

I have my doubts about the baritone sax and the ocarina (possibly made from a hollowed out whale, judging by the octave it plays in) but I've left those as they are.

I've never played a mammoth, so I can't be sure how they sound. I've left that one alone too.

- Andy

[Martin Tarenskeen [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Post by ***@ntlworld.com [YamahaDX]
 
Okay, I now realize at least two of the patch names in the WT11 manual are in the wrong order, so I've swapped BassoonDuo with Chime/Oboe, and
exported them again (attached).
I have my doubts about the baritone sax and the ocarina (possibly made from a hollowed out whale, judging by the octave it plays in) but I've left
those as they are.
I've never played a mammoth, so I can't be sure how they sound.  I've left that one alone too.

It could be these are not really errors in the manual: The original
patchbank that I posted contained NO patchnames. The names in the WT11 are
are only given in the performance data. A performance contains one or more
numbers (up to 8 of them) telling which patches are used to create the
performance. Performance #1 doesn't necessarily contain Patch #1,
Performance #32 doesn't necessarily contain Patch #32. It's
theoreticall even possible
to create a performance bank with 32 performances, each holding for
example patch number #1.

A performance consist of a patchname, effects, octave setting, panning,
layering of multiple patches, things like that.

The 32 names you found I think are PERFORMANCE names. To give the patches
in my WT11 voicebank sensible names, I need to analyze the factory
Performance bank *and* Voice bank data.

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

I see. Yes.

Most of them do seem to fit the names, fairly well, but there are a couple of odd ones.

- Andy

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Well, I bought a WT11 after all. I was about to do a factory reset, then try a bulk dump, so I could provide the full contents of the A bank - hopefully performances as well as voice patches.

The thing is, I can't get to the end of the test procedure to do the factory reset, which is the last step.

There's a document by WindworksDesign, called WT11 Secret Mode.pdf. It says how to get into "secret mode", and start the test. It also says you can use one of the buttons to step through the test.

What it neglects to say is that you CAN NOT proceed to the next step of the test without passing each of the previous steps.

So far, I've had to go and find a sustain pedal, to pass the pedals test, and have come to get my WX5 and WX cable, so I can pass step 6, which is the WX input test. It struck me that I'll have no way to pass the cassette interface test without researching how to wire up the cable - which is a 7 pin DIN.

This strikes me as utterly stupid. If a service engineer was using it as a first stab at diagnosing problems, he could only ever find one problem, so he'd be unable to give a quote - he couldn't find the next problem until he'd fixed that one...

Does anyone know of another way to do a factory reset, or know a way to skip stages of the test procedure? I have tried all the buttons, naturally.

I guess the only other way I could do it is to manually save each performance from A into I. That seems to be the only way I could dump the other two banks too. It's more error prone of course, and would be quite time consuming, but then so is trying to pass the poorly thought out test procedure.

- Andy


---In ***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote :

I see. Yes.

Most of them do seem to fit the names, fairly well, but there are a couple of odd ones.

- Andy

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Okay, I gave up on trying to do a factory reset. I've tried to save the three preset performance banks by doing a Store of each performance into the corresponding "I" bank slot, then doing a "dump all" - for each of the three banks.

I'm attaching what I have. Maybe Martin can confirm if they contain everything that's needed. I can't think of any other way of doing it, if not.

- Andy

[Martin Tarenskeen [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Hi Andy,

Thanks a lot for your efforts. I will investigate the files!

MT

Okay, I gave up on trying to do a factory reset.  I've tried to save the three preset performance banks by doing a Store of each performance into the corresponding
"I" bank slot, then doing a "dump all" - for each of the three banks.
I'm attaching what I have.  Maybe Martin can confirm if they contain everything that's needed.  I can't think of any other way of doing it, if not.
- Andy

[Martin Tarenskeen [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Okay, I gave up on trying to do a factory reset.  I've tried to save the three preset performance banks by doing a Store of each performance into the corresponding
"I" bank slot, then doing a "dump all" - for each of the three banks.
I'm attaching what I have.  Maybe Martin can confirm if they contain everything that's needed.  I can't think of any other way of doing it, if not.
- Andy

I did a quick analysis of the A, B, and C banks. They each contain 32 VMEM
formatted patches (compatible with TX81z, DX11, etcetera) plus WT11
specific Performance data. Interesting: The 32 VMEM voices are identical
for A, B, and C. But they each contain different Performance data.


MT

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

That is interesting... is it possible all 96 presets are just based on the same 32 VMEMs?

I loaded bank B back into the WT11, via MIDI-OX, and played each patch a little, then one a lot. They all worked, but I have no way of knowing for sure where it's taking the voice memory from.

I installed Steem and YSEDITOR on my old laptop, which has Windows XP, but I couldn't find any instructions and got bogged down in the details. I eventually got it to work, sort of, but I kept getting "Device not responding" a lot - despite being able to read the 32 voice memories (or similar name) from the synth, and the current performance, and successfully using the two buttons that play test tunes.

I tried editing one of the patches, but just by guesswork, because I didn't have any documentation beyond the help file. I edited the pitch envelope, which worked, but I don't know if that's part of the VMEM or the performance. I then pressed Compare, and it seemed to just lock up, though the synth displayed "Voice received", or similar. I gave up at that point, and turned it off.

I don't really want to connect my WX5 to it, because it's connected to my VL70m (in a different room) and I don't like disturbing the connector. I'm using my Akai EWI4000s, but I have to unplug it to use the editor. I guess I could try a merger, but since I'm getting the error messages already, I kind of expect that to make things worse.

- Andy

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

I just googled YSEDITOR, and immediately found some setup instructions, by Tinyloops, which would have been really useful to have yesterday:

https://www.tinyloops.com/doc/yamaha_tq5/YSEDITOR.html https://www.tinyloops.com/doc/yamaha_tq5/YSEDITOR.html

My XP laptop isn't allowed on the internet, of course. I should have given up sooner and looked for more documentation.

If you can still edit the main YSEDITOR page, Martin, a link to that or similar would be really helpful in getting it set up. As I've never used an Atari ST, I had no idea how to install it, or change the screen mode, so it took a while to get it working at all.

FWIW, I was using my Roland UM-1 MIDI interface, with the switch set to Advanced Driver. It needed to be set like that to work properly with the VL70m, which was used with it briefly. I can try the other setting or an M-Audio Uno... and a couple of Midisport 2x2s that refuse to work with Windows 7. I'll get back to it soon.

- Andy

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

It turns out that saving a performance from one of the preset banks to the I bank, just saves the performance - it doesn't copy any VMEM entries with it.

That explains what Martin pointed out about my three dumps, which I'd hoped were banks A-C - they're not; they're just the performances from those banks, with the original RAM VMEM data.

There is a table in the WT11 manual which allegedly describes the sysex structure of performances, but they left out the explanation of what each field does. The overview is still useful though. Each performance has (among other things) entries for 8 voices, and each of those has a vmem number, which is 0-127.

There was no clue which vmem number pointed to what, but it appears to be the same as the default Program Change table:

0-31 belongs to bank I
32-63 is bank A
64-95 is bank B
96-127 is bank C

- though I guess any ROM voice can be used for any performance, so maybe that's not a strict rule, apart from the first 32 corresponding to the 32 VMEM locations in RAM, which I've verified.

I confirmed this by using the Secret Mode, to edit performances and look at the vmem numbers (all I looked at were greater than 32). I then made a bank of 32 performances, each with one voice, and a vmem number pointing to each of the 32 vmem locations (0-31), and named with the vmem number as part of the name - so I01 is called VM00... I32 is called VM31.

I overwrote the 32 RAM VMEM entries by sending the Sal Galina TX81Z voices which are from the cassette that came with the Expressive FM Applications book - at least that's what they're supposed to be.

That worked, but sending the performances that came with them didn't - a couple looked okay, a lot had blank names and a lot didn't do anything, or only played in one ear. So, I put the "one per VMEM" performance bank back on - all fine.

Next I loaded back a complete dump I'd made after saving each of the B bank entries to the corresponding I bank - that plays bank B, but it's by using vmem numbers pointing into the ROM. I know that because I then put the "one per" performances back, and it played sounds from bank A. It wasn't exactly the same though. Some were just short attack sounds, so those are evidently used as a layer in a patch.

I've attached:

The performance bank which indexes VMEM 0-31 as I01 to I32 (with names like VM00),

A complete dump with that "one per" performance bank, and what was originally in my 32 RAM VMEM locations - which turns out to have been the initial data from bank A, as far as I can tell - unless one or two have been overwritten by the previous owner.

Sal Galina's TX81Z voices (which work on the WT11), and performances (which don't) and the list of patch names - useful for reference, because the WT11 doesn't show those, so they'd have to be copied into the performance names.

The "one per" performances can be used with any TX81Z voices bank, of course - it's only necessary to send the new voices bank, once that's been loaded. I've been using MIDI-OX to do it.

- Andy

['[e-mail]' [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

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<p>Hi,<br>I am investigating WT11 factory preset voices (112 in 4 banks in ROM), factory performances (32 x 3 banks), and WT11 documentation. I now have all datadumps (thanks to Paul Deco) and sysex specs that I need to convert all this into performance&#43;voice banks that I can use on my V50 (including DSP FX) or on a TX81z or DX11.<br><br>It can be done, but isn't as straightforward as I would wish. Working on it, be patient.<br><br>MT<br><br>Verzonden vanaf mijn Huawei mobiele telefoon<div class="quote"><br><br>-------- Oorspronkelijk bericht --------<br>Onderwerp: Re: [YamahaDX] Re: Yamaha WT11 factory patches / performances, on a TX81Z? [5 Attachments]<br>Van: "***@ntlworld.com [YamahaDX]" <YamahaDX><br>Aan: ***@yahoogroups.com<br>Cc: <br><br><br type="attribution"><blockquote class="quote" style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;">





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<p>It turns out that saving a performance from one of the preset banks to the I bank, just saves the performance - it doesn&#39;t copy any VMEM entries with it.&nbsp; <br><br>That explains what Martin pointed out about my three dumps, which I&#39;d hoped were banks A-C - they&#39;re not; they&#39;re just the performances from those banks, with the original RAM VMEM data.<br><br>There is a table in the WT11 manual which allegedly describes the sysex structure of performances, but they left out the explanation of what each field does.&nbsp; The overview is still useful though.&nbsp; Each performance has (among other things) entries for 8 voices, and each of those has a vmem number, which is 0-127.&nbsp; <br><br>There was no clue which vmem number pointed to what, but it appears to be the same as the default Program Change table:<br><br>0-31 belongs to bank I<br>32-63 is bank A<br>64-95 is bank B<br>96-127 is bank C<br><br>- though I guess any ROM voice can be used for any performance, so maybe that&#39;s not a strict rule, apart from the first 32 corresponding to the 32 VMEM locations in RAM, which I&#39;ve verified.<br><br>I confirmed this by using the Secret Mode, to edit performances and look at the vmem numbers (all I looked at were greater than 32).&nbsp; I then made a bank of 32 performances, each with one voice, and a vmem number pointing to each of the 32 vmem locations (0-31), and named with the vmem number as part of the name - so I01 is called VM00... I32 is called VM31.<br><br>I overwrote the 32 RAM VMEM entries by sending the Sal Galina TX81Z voices which are from the cassette that came with the Expressive FM Applications book - at least that&#39;s what they&#39;re supposed to be.&nbsp; <br><br>That worked, but sending the performances that came with them didn&#39;t - a couple looked okay, a lot had blank names and a lot didn&#39;t do anything, or only played in one ear.&nbsp; So, I put the &quot;one per VMEM&quot; performance bank back on - all fine.<br><br>Next I loaded back a complete dump I&#39;d made after saving each of the B bank entries to the corresponding I bank - that plays bank B, but it&#39;s by using vmem numbers pointing into the ROM.&nbsp; I know that because I then put the &quot;one per&quot; performances back, and it played sounds from bank A.&nbsp; It wasn&#39;t exactly the same though.&nbsp; Some were just short attack sounds, so those are evidently used as a layer in a patch.<br><br>I&#39;ve attached:<br><br>The performance bank which indexes VMEM 0-31 as I01 to I32 (with names like VM00),<br><br>A complete dump with that &quot;one per&quot; performance bank, and what was originally in my 32 RAM VMEM locations - which turns out to have been the initial data from bank A, as far as I can tell - unless one or two have been overwritten by the previous owner.<br><br>Sal Galina&#39;s TX81Z voices (which work on the WT11), and performances (which don&#39;t) and the list of patch names - useful for reference, because the WT11 doesn&#39;t show those, so they&#39;d have to be copied into the performance names.<br><br>The &quot;one per&quot; performances can be used with any TX81Z voices bank, of course - it&#39;s only necessary to send the new voices bank, once that&#39;s been loaded.&nbsp; I&#39;ve been using MIDI-OX to do it.<br><br>- Andy</p>



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[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Hi Martin,

There's no rush on my account. I originally asked before I bought the WT11, and I'm quite happy to just play them on that, now I've got it.

I'm intrigued about the 112 ROM preset voices though. That would appear to be 16 more than can be indexed by the vmem numbers in a performance - there are 32 RAM ones, so that only leaves another 96.

I guess there must be more to it than that, then, but there's no rush for an explanation either :)

- Andy

[Martin Tarenskeen [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Post by ***@ntlworld.com [YamahaDX]
Hi Martin,
There's no rush on my account.  I originally asked before I bought the WT11, and I'm quite happy to just play them on that, now I've got it.
I'm intrigued about the 112 ROM preset voices though.  That would appear to be 16 more than can be indexed by the vmem numbers in a performance -
there are 32 RAM ones, so that only leaves another 96.

In the SysEx specs I see room for an 8-bit value (7 bits in one byte, 1
bit (MSB) in another byte) allowing 256 values.

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

In the SysEx specs I see room for an 8-bit value (7 bits in one byte, 1 bit (MSB) in another byte) allowing 256 values.

It could be. The manual I have is a slightly blurry scan. I see b4 of param 0 of each instrument says MSB, but it doesn't say what it's the MSB of. Param 2 is 7 bits and it says VOICE NO (without LSB), so that seems reasonable.

The "Secret Mode" user interface only allows a number from 0-127 to be selected for vmem_num (I just checked), but maybe the ROM is allowed to address ones we're not allowed to choose. Have you found any examples where that bit is set?

I could edit a performance dump with a hex editor, to experiment, but I'd have to find out how to make the checksum right... I'm not sure if it would reject the transfer if it's wrong, or just complain. I'll have to look into it.

Incidentally, the WT11 Secret Mode.pdf says "Edit inst?" (for choosing the instrument to edit in the performance) can be from 1-3. That's wrong, of course; it can be from 1-8. It seems odd that that's been in circulation for so long and no one corrected it.... or maybe someone did, and there are now multiple versions of it.

- Andy

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Hi, see attachement for selecting voices in a performance on midi channel 1 ...


Paul

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Thanks, Paul, but I don't really know what I'm looking at, without some context.

Where is this taken from?

- Andy

[Martin Tarenskeen [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Post by ***@ntlworld.com [YamahaDX]
 
Thanks, Paul, but I don't really know what I'm looking at, without some context.

I do :-)

Post by ***@ntlworld.com [YamahaDX]
Where is this taken from?

Paul's picture shows how all 112 preset voices (bank A, B, C, D =
32+32+32+16 voices) and 32 user voices (bank I) can be selected using
SysEx messages for use in any of the 8 instruments that together make a
performance. Two messages are needed to send both the MSB and LSB of the
Voice number.

[Martin Tarenskeen [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Post by Martin Tarenskeen ***@zonnet.nl [YamahaDX]
Paul's picture shows how all 112 preset voices (bank A, B, C, D =
32+32+32+16 voices) and 32 user voices (bank I) can be selected using
SysEx messages for use in any of the 8 instruments that together make a
performance. Two messages are needed to send both the MSB and LSB of the
Voice number.

See Add-6, <CHART 5> in the WT11 manual and Add-3, 4.3.2 (3),
PCED PARAMETER CHANGE: $FO, $43, $1n, $10, $pp, $dd, $F7
$pp = parameter number 01 (MSB) and 02
$dd = value

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

I see. Thanks.

It seems odd that the Secret Mode performance editor doesn't let us use those 16 voices. I suppose it was easier not to.

- Andy

[Martin Tarenskeen [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Post by Martin Tarenskeen ***@zonnet.nl [YamahaDX]
I did a quick analysis of the A, B, and C banks. They each contain 32 VMEM
formatted patches (compatible with TX81z, DX11, etcetera) plus WT11
specific Performance data. Interesting: The 32 VMEM voices are identical
for A, B, and C. But they each contain different Performance data.

I did some more research. The A preset performance bank uses voice presets
from the A preset voicebank. The B performance bank uses voice presets
from the B preset voicebank. The C performance bank uses voice presets
from the preset C and D voicebanks.

I have created an overview of the bank A, B and C performance data that
shows which voicepresets and other settings are used by each performance.
See attachment.

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Post by Martin Tarenskeen ***@zonnet.nl [YamahaDX]
I have created an overview of the bank A, B and C performance data that

shows which voicepresets and other settings are used by each performance.

Thanks, Martin, that's very useful. It's much easier to read those lists than to try to find out the details of the performances by using the Secret Mode performance editor / menu diving experience...

I still haven't checked what it shows as the voice numbers for performances that use the D bank. That list of bank C performances will make it easier. I'm guessing it just shows the LSB.

I'm now wondering if those 16 D bank voices are Breath sensitive, since the settings to do that are part of each voice, not part of the performance. If not, I probably wouldn't need them anyway.

It's interesting to see which ones have detune (most of them). That just sounds like an LFO to me, because it's so precise and regular - any long held note has the same LFO-like warble to it. I'll try making copies of some of them without it.

- Andy

[Martin Tarenskeen [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Post by Martin Tarenskeen ***@zonnet.nl [YamahaDX]

Post by Martin Tarenskeen ***@zonnet.nl [YamahaDX]
I have created an overview of the bank A, B and C performance data that

shows which voicepresets and other settings are used by each performance.
Thanks, Martin, that's very useful.  It's much easier to read those lists than to try to find out the details of the performances by using the
Secret Mode performance editor / menu diving experience...

Next step in my experiments: Starting from the WT11 factory performance
and voice banks, I have created four sysex banks containing both Voice
and Performance data. Big trick: each bank contains 32 voices and 32
performances that can be loaded as SysEx in the Internal (RAM) user voice
and performance banks and the performances only use these Internal
userbank. This mean they are not only playable on a WT11 but also on a
TX81Z, DX11, WT11, YS200, TQ5, and V50.

A special note about bank C: I have created 2 banks from that named
WT11-PFC.syx and WT11-PFD.syx. In the PFC bank the voices that used WT11
voicebank C will sound right, in the PFD bank the voices that used WT11
voicebank D will sound right. In both banks a few performances will sound
strange and not match their name. Who cares. I give you 4 new
performance+voice banks for free :-)

Also attached: slightly improved versions of the performance parameter
listings.

P.S. I just started up my old YSEDITOR PLUS for Atari on my Hatari
emulator (STeem should also work). I see it also supports WT11 and allows
editing FM Voice parameters and Performance parameters. For performances
it only supports the current editbuffer performance, it does not have a
performance bankmanager for 32 performances. I now remember I borrowed a
WT11 for one week from my local musicshop back in the 90's to do some
testing with my Atari when I was developing the program. Good old days :-)

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Post by Martin Tarenskeen ***@zonnet.nl [YamahaDX]
Next step in my experiments: Starting from the WT11 factory performance

and voice banks, I have created four sysex banks containing both Voice
and Performance data.

That's great. Thanks, Martin. I'll try them out tomorrow.

I had a look at the C bank in the Secret Mode performance editor, and the references to voices in bank D are just shown as the LSB - number from 0-15 for D01-D16.

I made some small changes to a TX81Z patch with the Secret Mode voice editor too. Probably the most confusing part about that is that Store behaves in two different ways, depending on context. After pressing Play, it behaves as it does after a normal startup, which involves pressing two buttons eight inches apart. While editing, it behaves differently - the Store button starts and ends the menu sequence, which is better, unless I get the two modes confused.

I had a look for Hatari, not long ago, but didn't find it. I'll have another look in case Steem can't be made to behave properly - without the "Device not responding" messages. Possibly, I just need to start the setup of Steem again, referring to those instructions from tinyloops, instead of using a process of elimination, like I did before:

https://www.tinyloops.com/doc/yamaha_tq5/YSEDITOR.html https://www.tinyloops.com/doc/yamaha_tq5/YSEDITOR.html

- or try other MIDI interfaces, though the UM-1 seem fine with MIDI-OX (in XP).

Incidentally, trying some of the very few TX81Z patches I edited a while ago, played on the WX11, I heard some envelope clicks that I don't remember hearing before. In both cases I used the headphones socket, which means a small dedicated headphones amp gets to alter the signal slightly. Possibly the one in the TX81Z smooths out those clicks more.

- Andy

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

You could also burn a TX81Z eprom and replace the ABCD preset banks.
All WT11 voices (112) become available to create new performances.


The performance banks (32x3) should be split into 4 banks (24x4).
Favorite selection of 24 performances can be written in eprom.


The closest you can get with an 81Z ...

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Yes, I had a look at a TX81Z ROM image, to see if that looked feasible, Paul - just scrolling through it with a hex editor. I could spot the presets, though the size of each one seemed to be the wrong number of bytes for a VMEM, going by the TX81Z manual.

I'm not sure I'd bother though. Some of the TX81Z presets are quite good with a keyboard, and mine is always tethered to a PC, so loading them isn't really an issue. The biggest problem is organizing them in a way that lets me find the ones I want again.

Also, the TX81Z only has 24 performance slots... and the WT11 is heavily based around the banks of 32 performances.

What would be really good would be something like a Greymatter board for it, replacing the ROM with FLASH, and letting us write new presets to it. There is quite a bit of unused space in the V1.6 ROM image, for adding more firmware to do it. It would be a lot of work though.

I think I'm more likely to use Martin's banks of WT11 presets just as patches, not performances, on the TX81Z, and I may well use them on the WT11, even though they're in the ROM, because I want to tweak a lot of them, especially removing detune from most of them.

Yamaha were obsessed with detune on the FM synths, and I don't think it works well at all, except maybe for bell sounds. If there was some randomness to it, that would be great, but it's a constant fixed detune, that never varies, so it might was well be an LFO.

Removing all detune, from almost all patches and performances, sounds much better, to me. Of course, if a performance is based on two of the same patch/voice, detuned from each other, I'd probably want to substitute a difference voice, for one of them.

- Andy

[Martin Tarenskeen [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

I put the WT11 patches on my TX81Z and played them a bit.  Some of them are quite good.  Thanks again, Martin.
Looking at the manual, I realized they were the A bank (woodwinds), so I've typed the patch names in, using JSynthLib, and exported it again, as
sysex.  Hopefully that works with anything that can send sysex (e.g. MIDI-OX).

Thanks for sharing. I have used these patchnames now also for my RefaceDX
conversions from the WT11 A bank. ( http://refacedx.martintarenskeen.nl )

Some of the choices for the base octave are a bit odd, but that's easily allowed for by playing them with the WX5 - which makes it easy to
transpose up or down in octaves, with a couple of button presses.  I'll probably edit them so the defaults make more sense to me.

Sensible octave settings were probably programmed in the WT11 (PMEM/PCED)
performance data, just like the patchnames. The bank I posted only has the
voice (VMEM/VCED) data.

It would be nice to try the brass ones (B bank) too.  Is it possible to get those out of the ROM, or only the A bank? 

Yes, if someone can make a SysEx dump of the patchdata in that B bank
please share!

I see in the WT11 manual is says the I bank (the editable one) initially contains the contents of bank A, so I guess that's why that was
available.