[YamahaDX] DX7 ROM Card with 256 x 32 patches [3 Attachments]

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Hi everybody,

I was fed up to boot the computer each time I wanted to try a new SYSEX...so I designed a ROM card for the DX7 built around a 27C801 EPROM ( 1MB ) and ended up with a perfectly working device able to store 256 x 32 = 4096 patches...whereof to stay awake late in the night before needing to erase and burn the EPROM again....

There's no mystery in my design, based upon the original ROM card circuitry supplied by Yamaha, which I extended the adressing bus with 8 additional lines controlled by DIP switches for highest adress bits, allowing selection of one of the 256 banks.
I had to write a ( rough for now ) Python script to extract datas from SYSEXes ( basically to remove the MIDI-dedicated bytes ) and to build the .bin file to be sent to the EPROM programmer. For now, I filled the ROM to the brim with 256 SYSEXes picked up at random ;-)

As said, the prototype seems to work very well ( though I didn't test every single patch....)

If someone is interested in such a device, I can launch a batch at OSH Park for PCBs and send them once I've received them. I can also supply rightly programmed 27C801 EPROM, or even a complete kit with all the components ( a few indeed ). Let me know !

I attach to this message pictures of the card and the script I used ( in French, sorry....).


Chris.

[Daniel Forró [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Finally! That’s great! I was waiting for something like this 31 years :-) Merci beaucoup.

Depending on the price I could be interested in such cart. If only you offer also programming that EPROM from SysEx data for 128 DX7 banks sent by customer. I haven’t possibility to do it myself.

Do you plan to make such cart also fir DX7 II D/FD and other machines using RAM4/5 cards, or SY99 and other Yamaha instruments using MCD32/64 cards?

BTW, do you know that some similar interesting devices are produced by Brian at Sector101? Check his page.

Daniel Forro

Post by ***@yahoo.com [YamahaDX]
Hi everybody,
I was fed up to boot the computer each time I wanted to try a new SYSEX...so I designed a ROM card for the DX7 built around a 27C801 EPROM ( 1MB ) and ended up with a perfectly working device able to store 256 x 32 = 4096 patches...whereof to stay awake late in the night before needing to erase and burn the EPROM again....
There's no mystery in my design, based upon the original ROM card circuitry supplied by Yamaha, which I extended the adressing bus with 8 additional lines controlled by DIP switches for highest adress bits, allowing selection of one of the 256 banks.
I had to write a ( rough for now ) Python script to extract datas from SYSEXes ( basically to remove the MIDI-dedicated bytes ) and to build the .bin file to be sent to the EPROM programmer. For now, I filled the ROM to the brim with 256 SYSEXes picked up at random ;-)
As said, the prototype seems to work very well ( though I didn't test every single patch....)
If someone is interested in such a device, I can launch a batch at OSH Park for PCBs and send them once I've received them. I can also supply rightly programmed 27C801 EPROM, or even a complete kit with all the components ( a few indeed ). Let me know !
I attach to this message pictures of the card and the script I used ( in French, sorry....).
Chris.

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Thank you for posting this. As Daniel has mentioned there is perhaps a large amount of pent up demand for something like this. Is there no issue with using the PCB traces as contacts? I know this has been done in the 80's and 90's but it seems all the recent attempts (even here on this group) have failed to achieve popular success because of board thickness or some other issue making them unreliable. I hope yours does work.

Also, OSH Park allows customers to buy boards on demand so it's possible for you to make it available that way and people buy direct from OSH Park and you receive some compensation. I'm not exactly sure how all that works though.

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Hi Daniel & grant, thank you for your answer !

I suspected someone did it before, but didn't look further...Actually, I have a bunch of 27C801 in the bottom of a drawer and wondered what to do with them ;-)...

@Daniel
For now, I only ordered the regular 3 pieces batch from OSH; there's one unpopulated card left, the two others acted as prototypes...The total amount for that batch was 45€, so a card price is 15€. Including EPROM, all the components and shipping costs, I guess a total amount of ~30€...
There's no problem for me to burn your own SYSEX : you've just to send me the list of the patches you want to be included in the EPROM ;-)...

I don't plan to design cards for other machines, as long as I don't own them ;-)...Maybe later, I'll cogit about an Arduino/SD Card interface for my DX7...

@grant
Yes, I noticed the existence of cards using PCB traces for contact...the thickness of the PCB sold by OSH seem to be satisfactory, I didn't encounter problems of bad contact...Of course, it's necessary to see in duration after many insertions/extractions...I can't tell, it works perfectly for now !

Of course I would be glad to make the board available on OSH; I'll see how it works.

Chris.

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Hi Christophe - that's great news! Maybe you want to post your outcome here:


http://www.yamahamusicians.com/forum/


There's lot of activity reg. Yamaha synths...


Regards,
Miks

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Hi Miks,

Thanks, I'll consider doing this !

Chris

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Good idea :-)

At the Yamaha forums the runner of "Sector101" is known as member 'shadowmask' - as you can see he uses such kind of rotary switch too - as well as with his Waveblade card... which is very comfortable to use.


This is what the Datablade/Waveblade cards looks:


https://sector101.co.uk/datablade.html https://sector101.co.uk/datablade.html

https://sector101.co.uk/waveblade.html https://sector101.co.uk/waveblade.html

[Martin Tarenskeen [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Post by ***@yahoo.de [YamahaDX]
At the Yamaha forums the runner of "Sector101" is known as member 'shadowmask' - as you can see he uses such kind of rotary switch too - as well
as with his Waveblade card... which is very comfortable to use.
https://sector101.co.uk/datablade.html
https://sector101.co.uk/waveblade.html

I own such a card for my Yamaha V50. Very nice.

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Hi

Yes, rotatory hexa switches seem to be the ideal solution...the drawback is the price of such a component compared to cheap DIP switches...
Furthermore, one of the additional benefits of DIP switches is the possibility to substitute the not often available 27C801 for a smaller one ( eg 27C512 ) as the pinouts are quite compatible; you just have to set one of the highest bit switch ON to supply power to the chip.

Anyway, I'll work on a design embedding 2 rotatory switches, it's not huge work ;-)...

Considering what Daniel very judiciously said, the card is not intended to be often extracted out of its slot, so a loss of contact is not expected in a even long time of use.

Chris

['Dave Dillabough' [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

For longer lasting contacts ask your PCB supplier do 2 thing.

1) Cut a beveled edge on the PCB where the edge connector is.
2) have the contacts for the edge connector hard gold plated.

These are standard operations and should not cost much.

The beveled edge makes inserting the card easier and protects the edge of
the contact fingers.

The hard gold plating reduces the contact resistance and reduces contact
wear.

Post by ***@yahoo.com [YamahaDX]
Hi
Yes, rotatory hexa switches seem to be the ideal solution...the drawback
is the price of such a component compared to cheap DIP switches...
Furthermore, one of the additional benefits of DIP switches is the
possibility to substitute the not often available 27C801 for a smaller one
( eg 27C512 ) as the pinouts are quite compatible; you just have to set
one of the highest bit switch ON to supply power to the chip.
Anyway, I'll work on a design embedding 2 rotatory switches, it's not huge work ;-)...
Considering what Daniel very judiciously said, the card is not intended to
be often extracted out of its slot, so a loss of contact is not expected
in a even long time of use.
Chris

***@deepgreen.ca

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

The work of Sector101 is muuuuuch more professional than mine....I can't compete :-)

[Ramiro Hernandez [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

I'm interested
Let me know about total price to USA

Post by ***@yahoo.com [YamahaDX]
Hi Daniel & grant, thank you for your answer !
I suspected someone did it before, but didn't look further...Actually, I have a bunch of 27C801 in the bottom of a drawer and wondered what to do with them ;-)...
@Daniel
For now, I only ordered the regular 3 pieces batch from OSH; there's one unpopulated card left, the two others acted as prototypes...The total amount for that batch was 45€, so a card price is 15€. Including EPROM, all the components and shipping costs, I guess a total amount of ~30€...
There's no problem for me to burn your own SYSEX : you've just to send me the list of the patches you want to be included in the EPROM ;-)...
I don't plan to design cards for other machines, as long as I don't own them ;-)...Maybe later, I'll cogit about an Arduino/SD Card interface for my DX7...
@grant
Yes, I noticed the existence of cards using PCB traces for contact...the thickness of the PCB sold by OSH seem to be satisfactory, I didn't encounter problems of bad contact...Of course, it's necessary to see in duration after many insertions/extractions...I can't tell, it works perfectly for now !
Of course I would be glad to make the board available on OSH; I'll see how it works.
Chris.

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Hi Ramiro !

What are you interested in ? Bare PCB ? EPROM ? Complete kit ?

Chris

[Ramiro Hernandez [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Hi & tks for answer

Well I don't know to much about that
What I looking for is
Rom card just ready for load more Sysex
Sounds to my dx7
You know better
I hope you understand

Tks

Post by ***@yahoo.com [YamahaDX]
Hi Ramiro !
What are you interested in ? Bare PCB ? EPROM ? Complete kit ?
Chris

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Hi

Well, I inquired about shipping costs for USA, they are rather prohibitive...Including them, I think a complete card cost would be at least 50€ ( ~ 60$ ) :-((

Chris

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

We have a similar issue when sending packages from the US overseas. This is why I mentioned the direct from OSH Park alternative as shipping from China is so inexpensive. Anyway, I am also interested in a bare PCB or kit.

[Ramiro Hernandez [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

I need to know exactly price in USA dlls
Shipping & rom card ready to use
Also how I can pay
Let me know
Tks

Post by ***@jps.net [YamahaDX]
We have a similar issue when sending packages from the US overseas. This is why I mentioned the direct from OSH Park alternative as shipping from China is so inexpensive. Anyway, I am also interested in a bare PCB or kit.

[Daniel Forró [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

If I understand well this is not normal RAM where you can can save banks or individual patches in standard way on DX7.

It has to be programmed in EPROM programmer, and common SysEx bank data has to be converted before.

So if Chris will not offer his card with some pre-programmed EPROM (for example with all original Yamaha ROM’s and some usual random garbage from the internet - because I don’t think he would make some order or patch categorization in it, it’s too much work, or maybe he can use DEXED archive), you have to send him your own patch selection (256 banks) what you want to have on the card, and he will program it.

That means probably don’t expect you will get some “rom card ready for use”.

Daniel Forro

Post by Ramiro Hernandez ***@sbcglobal.net [YamahaDX]
I need to know exactly price in USA dlls
Shipping & rom card ready to use
Also how I can pay
Let me know
Tks

[Daniel Forró [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Maybe this is not problem IMHO, as such card with 4096 or 8192 patches and limited possibility to reprogram (becauser most of potential users have no access to and not enough knowledge about EPROM programmers) can be inside instrument all the time, like glued :-)

When there’s a need for more sounds, there’s still internal RAM and SysEx communication.

Daniel Forro

Post by ***@jps.net [YamahaDX]
Thank you for posting this. As Daniel has mentioned there is perhaps a large amount of pent up demand for something like this. Is there no issue with using the PCB traces as contacts? I know this has been done in the 80's and 90's but it seems all the recent attempts (even here on this group) have failed to achieve popular success because of board thickness or some other issue making them unreliable. I hope yours does work.

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Great!!!!

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Félicitations Christophe!
Cool stuff.
I have a DX7-II so I won't order one (DX7 to DX7-II cartridge adapters are very rare and insanely expensive).

One suggestion, it would greatly improve usability if you used hex rotary switches with knobs instead of DIP switches.
Something like this:

e.g. https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/cts-electrocomponents/220ADC16/CT3070-ND/4743856
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/cts-electrocomponents/220ADC16/CT3070-ND/4743856 https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/cts-electrocomponents/220ADC16/CT3070-ND/4743856

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Well done, Christophe. I have many ideas like that one, but they rarely end up actually getting built :)

I agree with Antoine - DIP switches aren't ideal, not only for ergonomics but because they are not normally rated for frequent use.

For example, the Yamaha WX5 uses them to set options (on boot) but it advises in the manual that they are not meant to be changed frequently. DIP switches are notorious for failing, if they're used a lot.

Maybe you could break out the switching section to a separate board, e.g. via a header and an optional IDC cable, so people could provide their own solution - that's the easy bit. I think most of us could handle doing that, with a bit of advice from other members.

I only have a TX7, and they didn't provide a cartridge slot, so I can't use one, unfortunately. It would be nice though. I've debated whether it's worth the effort to design an Arduino based sysex librarian module to send a bank to it, based on Bank Select messages, for example. Maybe one day...

FWIW, I've (hopefully) attached a bank I've made with my favourite Piano, EP and Clav sounds from the official 1a-4b DX7 cartridges, plus a few from another source. I cheated a bit and used some of the cartridge guitar patches too, because some make quite nice clavs, to my ear.

Andy

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Hi Antoine & Andy,

thanks for the suggestion !

Of course a rotary switch would have been more reliable ( and more professional-looking ;-), but the DIP switches was cheaper and during construction, I kept in mind the use of the components I already had, like EPROM and DIP switches ;-)))
But it's an excellent idea, and I'll dig in it ! Also the use of a separate board could be a huge ergonomic improvement.

OK, there's still some work to do and stuff to play with !

Chris

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

I would like a bare PCB so I can build one out of parts I already have, but alas I have a DX7S which is also not the exact same cartridge slot as the mark I.

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Salut Christophe!

I'm interested into buying one of your cart! We should also think about making a 3D model of a cart for enabling people to print their own.

Thanks for your effort anyway! I'm looking forward to your reply

Jonas

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

great project !
is there any chance you could make it for the DX7II ?

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Do you mean an enclosure/case for it? I don't think it comes with one now (and I'm fine with that). But it would be great to have an enclosure too although it probably would mean some collaboration on the PCB so that the case fits and functions properly.

And as someone else mentioned the beveled edge on the PCB.

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Hi Grant,

yeah I was talking about an enclosure, I just didn't have the word in mind when I wrote my post! I never owned any DX7 cart but I think we can get away with one with a screw in the middle. Maybe a C64 cart would be a good start? > https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:692797 https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:692797

Jonas

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Nice job.

Has everyone forgotten my 8 x 32 patch RAM cartridge I designed and made over a year ago.
It has a rotary switch to select the bank and works just like 8 original RAM4 cartridges.

Admittedly it doesn't hold 4096 patches but is read/write with a write-protect switch.

I made a decent size batch and advertised them on eBay but got very little interest; this was quite expensive and disappointing.

I uploaded pics of the 3D model of the enclosure too.

The original thread is:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/YamahaDX/conversations/topics/18948;_ylc=X3oDMTM1Ym11ZGloBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI4MDg3OQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwMzIxNDQEbXNnSWQDMTkwOTMEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxNDYyNDc0MDEwBHRwY0lkAzE4OTQ4 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/YamahaDX/conversations/topics/18948;_ylc=X3oDMTM1Ym11ZGloBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI4MDg3OQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwMzIxNDQEbXNnSWQDMTkwOTMEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxNDYyNDc0MDEwBHRwY0lkAzE4OTQ4

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Photo of my cartridge (without case):

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/YamahaDX/photos/albums/1770347221/lightbox/1834033822?orderBy=ordinal&sortOrder=asc&photoFilter=ALL https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/YamahaDX/photos/albums/1770347221/lightbox/1834033822?orderBy=ordinal&sortOrder=asc&photoFilter=ALL

[Daniel Forró [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Sorry to say that it is only your fault, looks like some kind of bad marketing :-)

Your last message on this forum about your card development came on May 6th 2016.

I have never seen any announcement that your product was finished and ready for selling. You have sent some messages later, but your card was not mentioned there at all.

You didn’t announce here where it is possible to buy it and how much it costs.

No wonder there was little interest.

I considered it abandoned project and forgot about it.

So could you please improve this situation and explain everything? Maybe it’s a good chance - not everybody needs ROM with 4096 sounds which has to be programmed in a special way.
Maybe some users would be satisfied with compatible multibank RAM which can be used as standard RAM1 (possibility to save and load bank, or save just one patch, with protect switch)


Thanks for any info about your project.

Daniel Forro

Post by ***@goffart.co.uk [YamahaDX]
Nice job.
Has everyone forgotten my 8 x 32 patch RAM cartridge I designed and made over a year ago.
It has a rotary switch to select the bank and works just like 8 original RAM4 cartridges.
Admittedly it doesn't hold 4096 patches but is read/write with a write-protect switch.
I made a decent size batch and advertised them on eBay but got very little interest; this was quite expensive and disappointing.
I uploaded pics of the 3D model of the enclosure too.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/YamahaDX/conversations/topics/18948;_ylc=X3oDMTM1Ym11ZGloBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI4MDg3OQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwMzIxNDQEbXNnSWQDMTkwOTMEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxNDYyNDc0MDEwBHRwY0lkAzE4OTQ4 <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/YamahaDX/conversations/topics/18948;_ylc=X3oDMTM1Ym11ZGloBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI4MDg3OQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwMzIxNDQEbXNnSWQDMTkwOTMEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxNDYyNDc0MDEwBHRwY0lkAzE4OTQ4>

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

That seems rather harsh, Daniel.

Perhaps it was lost in translation, but it was fairly clear to me that this was more of a hobby project than a commercial one.

There is very little chance of him making a profit on it. It seemed clear to me he was just offering to share what he'd come up with.

Andy

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

I have to say I felt it was abandoned too and never saw it on eBay.

I did purchase a 3D printed cartridge enclosure (not sure it was the same seller), but would have had to cut it in half to begin to design guts for it. One would expect a cartridge enclosure to come in halves that can be fastened together somehow.

Anyway I would still be interested in the completed thing if the price is not prohibitive.

[Daniel Forró [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

I didn’t say anything against the project itself, no doubt this is a great work and I admire greatly anybody who can do something like this.

Still it’s a reality there was missing information how it continued, it was not offered to share or sell.

There can be interest in such card if information is spread among people who work with DX7. Expecially recently when it’s clearly to see some renewed interest in FM synthesis and DX7.

There’s this group, then Yamaha Musicians, Gearslutz, Matrix, Yamaha Blackboxes, YamahaUK, and probably more, including Facebook (which I don’t use)


Such great hobby project deserves to be known, and it’s creator should have some profit from it.

But here was only silence after promising start
 that’s my point.

Nevermind, nothing is lost except some time. If it exists, it will find its customers.

Daniel Forro

Post by ***@ntlworld.com [YamahaDX]
That seems rather harsh, Daniel.
Perhaps it was lost in translation, but it was fairly clear to me that this was more of a hobby project than a commercial one.
There is very little chance of him making a profit on it. It seemed clear to me he was just offering to share what he'd come up with.
Andy

[Ramiro Hernandez [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

I agree with you Daniel & is exactly
What I'm looking for
I Appreciate everything what you do for
This group
I hope you always stay here sharing
Your experience for all members
Because I know you are very expert

Tks

Post by Daniel Forró ***@yahoo.com [YamahaDX]
I didn’t say anything against the project itself, no doubt this is a great work and I admire greatly anybody who can do something like this.
Still it’s a reality there was missing information how it continued, it was not offered to share or sell.
There can be interest in such card if information is spread among people who work with DX7. Expecially recently when it’s clearly to see some renewed interest in FM synthesis and DX7.
There’s this group, then Yamaha Musicians, Gearslutz, Matrix, Yamaha Blackboxes, YamahaUK, and probably more, including Facebook (which I don’t use)

Such great hobby project deserves to be known, and it’s creator should have some profit from it.
But here was only silence after promising start
 that’s my point.
Nevermind, nothing is lost except some time. If it exists, it will find its customers.
Daniel Forro

Post by ***@ntlworld.com [YamahaDX]
That seems rather harsh, Daniel.
Perhaps it was lost in translation, but it was fairly clear to me that this was more of a hobby project than a commercial one.
There is very little chance of him making a profit on it. It seemed clear to me he was just offering to share what he'd come up with.
Andy

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Yes, I see the point, Daniel. Communication is why we are here.

If I had a cartridge slot on my TX7, I'd definitely be interested in one of each - a RAM cartridge and a ROM cartridge. Maybe the next project will be a cartridge carousel, so they can both be left in the slot and switched between :)

Agreed; this might actually be a better time to offer one than last year. Yamaha have successfully piqued interest in FM again, while failing to provide a product for people to buy that really does what a lot of us want.

Okay, I'm sure the Reface DX has its points, but I'd want something that's functionally better than my TX7 or TX81Z, not something that's kind of cut down, with a few new quirks added, before I parted with a few hundred for a new one.

Maybe they have something else in the pipeline? I hope they do, but I won't hold my breath. The FM synths they made in the 80s, are still the ones to get. So, yes, more accessories to improve those are what we need.

Andy

['Nicole Massey' [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Yeah, that's my big complaint with Yamaha these days -- all they're doing is repackaging things. They're not giving me a reason to buy from them -- they'll have to give me an option that's more than I can get running soft synths on a Muse Receptor before I'll get ready to fork over some bills. And the shame of it is that they have the technology to do this -- give us a line of instruments that can mix FM, ROM samples, user samples, Physical Modeling, and modular style subtractive synthesis with resonant filters and a vast array of signal path and modulation options and then we could create both our old school sounds (or load them through dumps to the instrument) and blend in newer and different elements. That'd be worth buying, especially if the FM was 8-operator. Regurgitation isn't innovation, folks.

-----Original Message-----
From: ***@yahoogroups.com [mailto:***@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2017 9:33 PM
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] DX7 ROM Card with 256 x 32 patches



Yes, I see the point, Daniel. Communication is why we are here.

If I had a cartridge slot on my TX7, I'd definitely be interested in one of each - a RAM cartridge and a ROM cartridge. Maybe the next project will be a cartridge carousel, so they can both be left in the slot and switched between :)

Agreed; this might actually be a better time to offer one than last year. Yamaha have successfully piqued interest in FM again, while failing to provide a product for people to buy that really does what a lot of us want.

Okay, I'm sure the Reface DX has its points, but I'd want something that's functionally better than my TX7 or TX81Z, not something that's kind of cut down, with a few new quirks added, before I parted with a few hundred for a new one.

Maybe they have something else in the pipeline? I hope they do, but I won't hold my breath. The FM synths they made in the 80s, are still the ones to get. So, yes, more accessories to improve those are what we need.

Andy

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Exactly, Nicole.

Actually, I'd settle for a box that did one of those things well, so long as it did something that was new and relatively innovative - I appreciate they might not be able to make enough money by putting a lot of functionality in one box, though they definitely could do that if they wanted to.

I came very close to buying a Reface CP. I'm still not absolutely ruling out ever buying one, but I can get so close to what that can do by just using my TX7 and their cartridge patches, so I can't easily justify it.

That was the point of the pianos+EPs+clavs bank I attached. It's not as realistic as a Reface CP, doesn't have the knobs, but it does the job, does it well, and has a choice of 32 instruments loaded instead of 6 (and one acoustic piano they won't admit exists... very odd).

Also, the lack of proper MIDI sockets REALLY bothers me.

I recently saw a Yamaha CBX K1 MIDI keyboard, and bought it on the spot. It's almost the same form factor as a Reface CP, but with only a pitch bender and an assignable wheel.

It has proper MIDI In and Out sockets though, and the In is merged, so i can plug a knobby MIDI controller into it, mostly for my other synth modules rather than the FM ones. The action is quite nice, very like the Reface CP keyboard seemed in the shop when I tried one.

So:

Old Yamaha TX7 synth expander module, from the 80s, which I already owned

+

Old Yamaha mini 37 key keyboard, from a while ago (not sure when)

+ 32 free patches

+ (if I felt like it) some of my many recently unused electric guitar effects pedals, mostly based on designs by Boss etc, from decades ago.

OR

A shiny new Reface CP, with only 7 instrument sounds and a stupid floppy adapter cable that I'd expect to lose or break on a fairly regular basis.

Each has it's merits I guess, but yes, there's nothing new there, really. Spectral Component Modelling seems like a useful idea because it can do smooth transitions over all 127 velocity levels, but then FM could do that 30 years ago, and do it pretty well.

Andy

[Daniel Forró [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

It seems to be some trend in last years - not only Yamaha goes this way with Reface series. Korg has more versions of their MS20, there’s Volca series (one also using FM), they offered even old ARP! Roland did Jupiter, Boutique series, recently some old modular


Mostly with those unpleasant small keys good for anything, just not for performance.

All Japanese firms, maybe it’s some kind of reaction on the lack of space in Japanese houses and appartments?

If they are not able to bring something really new, they can do combinations as you said. The last attempt for innovation by Yamaha was FS1r. Combination were used in EX5/7, to some degree they were possible with plugin card system. And the last Montage is a combination of improved FM and samples..

But maybe they think user can make such combination instrument (which would be expensive) from more small instruments


Daniel Forro

Post by 'Nicole Massey' ***@gypsyheir.com [YamahaDX]
Yeah, that's my big complaint with Yamaha these days -- all they're doing is repackaging things. They're not giving me a reason to buy from them -- they'll have to give me an option that's more than I can get running soft synths on a Muse Receptor before I'll get ready to fork over some bills. And the shame of it is that they have the technology to do this -- give us a line of instruments that can mix FM, ROM samples, user samples, Physical Modeling, and modular style subtractive synthesis with resonant filters and a vast array of signal path and modulation options and then we could create both our old school sounds (or load them through dumps to the instrument) and blend in newer and different elements. That'd be worth buying, especially if the FM was 8-operator. Regurgitation isn't innovation, folks.
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2017 9:33 PM
Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] DX7 ROM Card with 256 x 32 patches
Yes, I see the point, Daniel. Communication is why we are here.
If I had a cartridge slot on my TX7, I'd definitely be interested in one of each - a RAM cartridge and a ROM cartridge. Maybe the next project will be a cartridge carousel, so they can both be left in the slot and switched between :)
Agreed; this might actually be a better time to offer one than last year. Yamaha have successfully piqued interest in FM again, while failing to provide a product for people to buy that really does what a lot of us want.
Okay, I'm sure the Reface DX has its points, but I'd want something that's functionally better than my TX7 or TX81Z, not something that's kind of cut down, with a few new quirks added, before I parted with a few hundred for a new one.
Maybe they have something else in the pipeline? I hope they do, but I won't hold my breath. The FM synths they made in the 80s, are still the ones to get. So, yes, more accessories to improve those are what we need.
Andy

.

[Daniel Forró [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

You can use the old MDF - MIDI Data Filer, for example MDF2 or MDF3. It’s very useful small machine, good for storing and sending SysEx banks. Besides it can play MIDI files which is good for connection with some GM/GS/XG module.

But it uses floppy disks, that can be problem for somebody. FDD can be replaced with some kind of floppy emulator with SD cards or USB memory stick.

I doubt Yamaha will offer some innovation or new FM - in fact they tried this in Montage and Reface DX.

The best years are gone.

Daniel Forro

Post by ***@ntlworld.com [YamahaDX]
Yes, I see the point, Daniel. Communication is why we are here.
If I had a cartridge slot on my TX7, I'd definitely be interested in one of each - a RAM cartridge and a ROM cartridge. Maybe the next project will be a cartridge carousel, so they can both be left in the slot and switched between :)
Agreed; this might actually be a better time to offer one than last year. Yamaha have successfully piqued interest in FM again, while failing to provide a product for people to buy that really does what a lot of us want.
Okay, I'm sure the Reface DX has its points, but I'd want something that's functionally better than my TX7 or TX81Z, not something that's kind of cut down, with a few new quirks added, before I parted with a few hundred for a new one.
Maybe they have something else in the pipeline? I hope they do, but I won't hold my breath. The FM synths they made in the 80s, are still the ones to get. So, yes, more accessories to improve those are what we need.
Andy

[Martin Tarenskeen [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Post by Daniel Forró ***@yahoo.com [YamahaDX]
You can use the old MDF - MIDI Data Filer, for example MDF2 or MDF3. It’s very useful small machine, good for storing and sending SysEx banks.
Besides it can play MIDI files which is good for connection with some GM/GS/XG module.
But it uses floppy disks, that can be problem for somebody. FDD can be replaced with some kind of floppy emulator with SD cards or USB memory
stick.

Another modern option for small and portable storage of SysEx banks is
using a smartphone and a suitable cable/adaptor to connect to MIDI.

This worked perfectly with my Huawei P8 (Android) + USB-OTG cable + Edirol
UM-1X + Midi Commander app, until I dropped my phone in the water. Oops. I
had stored tons of patches for my synth stored on a tiny 16GB microSD
card. Thinking of the good days: not everything in the past was better.
Floppy disks were a nightmare.

Unfortunately my new phone, a cheaper model, doesn't support USB-OTG
connection properly. USB-OTG support isn't well documented in the
manufacturers info of most Android smartphones. I'm thinking of buying a
new phone that is compatible with USB-OTG and that is able to run the
Syx-Lib app.

I am not familiar with iPhones, but I assume these can be used too, maybe
even better than Android. You will probable need one of those overprized
adaptor cables that Apple sells. There is an app named Midi Tool Box that
should work. Maybe there is an iPhone user here in the forum who can tell
more.

[Daniel Forró [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Not so bad, my experience is rather good, I didn’t lose much data due some issues or problems. I use them since 185 - those times still 5.25 inch with Commodore 64, my first computer.

Still I use them in many devices and instruments and it works.

Of course it’s necessary to have everything back-up’d, and avoid magnetic fields. Otherwise I can’t complain, I have more thousands of floppies and use them daily. Nowadays it’s possible to buy USB FDD for 5 USD


So I stopped considering replacement of FDD in my machines for floppy emulators or card readers. It has no sense, I don’t see any advantage. Those diskettes will survive me :-)

Daniel Forro

Post by Martin Tarenskeen ***@zonnet.nl [YamahaDX]
Floppy disks were a nightmare.

.

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Hi Daniel et al,

I have refreshed the eBay listing for my RAM Cartridge boards.

I'm not sure what happened previously - it appears that a reply to the group didn't work. I seem to have quite a lot of issues with Yahoo! groups.

Hopefully this will generate some interest now!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RAM-Cartridge-board-for-Yamaha-DX7-DX9-8-Patch-Banks-RAM1-Compatible/263220870521 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RAM-Cartridge-board-for-Yamaha-DX7-DX9-8-Patch-Banks-RAM1-Compatible/263220870521

Please feel free to ask any questions!

Regards,

Ant.

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

... oh and I have a few bare PCBs available too, and could provide DigiKey part numbers for all components if anyone's feeling adventurous!

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Excellent, aerobaticant. That seems like a very fair price. It's a shame my TX7 wasn't made with a cartridge slot.

Interesting options for loading patches. Thanks, all.

I like the Android app idea best, but mine is permanently tethered to my PC anyway, so I don't really need anything other than what I have set up. If I wanted to play it live, a portable solution like that would be good, to save having to take a laptop.

I still like the idea of a black box filled with banks that I can switch remotely (e.g. by sending a Bank Select message), but I don't really feel like putting the effort into building one, and arguably don't really need one either.

Here's one option no one mentioned:

http://youtu.be/TSwqnR327fk

:)

Andy

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

I would like a blank PCB if its compatible with DX7II/S.

[Daniel Forró [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Unfortunately not directly, only with recently rather expensive adapter ADP1.

Daniel Forro

Post by ***@yahoo.com [YamahaDX]
I would like a blank PCB if its compatible with DX7II/S.
_

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Unfortunately there are a number of electrical differences. As Daniel says, the ADP1 adaptor is an option, albeit expensive.

There does seem to be quite a bit more interest in the RAM4 type than the RAM1.

The original RAM4 uses static RAM devices with a battery. This may have been done because of costs associated with EEPROM at the time. The RAM1 uses EEPROM, but it is a quarter of the storage size. If I were to design a RAM4 compatible cartridge I'd consider using EEPROM as the battery backup would be unnecessary.

I don't have a RAM4 cartridge (or a DX7II/s) myself so it would be tricky to reverse engineer. I took a number of the measurements for my design from an original RAM1 cartridge.

The schematics I have seen for the RAM4 also seem incomplete, particularly concerning the chip enables. Having a real cartridge to compare, probe and measure would be useful but typically $100 for a second hand one would be a significant up-front cost.

Anyone fancy a collaboration? :-)

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Well, I have the electronics experience to do this myself, I can reverse engineer a ROM cart from a DX7S and I'm sure the schematics for the DX7S will allow me to fill in any gaps, (to find the r/w line especially) but I just don't have the time these days.

[Bruce Wahler [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

  Anyone fancy a collaboration?  :-)

Interesting question.  I have items that might be useful:

* a RAM4 and a RAM5 (yes, a real one)
* a licensed copy of Altium Designer for PCB design
* 35 years' experience designing PC boards, including 20 or so routing
them

And, I have some time to spend -- with caveats (see below).

________
The bigger question to the group is:  How many people want a finished
product vs. a DIY kit?  Designing the RAM4 (or '5 or '6 ...) in 2017
using 1985 technology doesn't make a lot of sense, IMHO.  Most of the
parts are obsolete, and new technologies have opened other approaches. 
The battery could be eliminated, and there are ways to make a slick UI
with a small display and a few push switches.  However, the project
wouldn't be trivial, if it were done properly.  In a 'real' product,
there are reliability and product life concerns to address -- anyone who
is depending on a 30-year-old synth isn't going to want their memory
card to fail in a couple of years.  And the UI software might be a
larger task than the hardware.

I have a business, Ashby Solutions, that makes niche products for
musicians and I'm experienced with the pros and cons.  When I first
joined this group, I asked:  Would anyone be interested in purchasing a
RAM4-like cartridge with 5-20x memory capability, using modern
technology?  And if so, at what price?  The overall answer to my
question was (paraphrasing), "I'm interested, but my funds are limited. 
Plus, I like building my own.  I'd take a PC board layout, or even a raw
PCB, but not finished goods."

Therein lies the rub.  It would only take a few hours to properly lay
out a PCB using 1985-ish technology and create a list of parts with
potential suppliers.  But the board would have to have a very simple UI
(ex: DIP switches), and the list of suppliers is likely to change
constantly.  A brand new design would be easier to support, but I
suspect that the work would run to hundreds of hours.  I'd still be
interested in designing a new product, but if the potential users are
all on no/low budget, I can't justify the time -- at least, until I
retire. ;-)

Regards,

-BW

Bruce Wahler
Ashby Solutions.com™
***@ashbysolutions.com
http://music.ashbysolutions.com
978.597.7008

['Nicole Massey' [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Since I'm blind I'd like something where I didn't have to find someone to put it together for me. But there's that low income issue to deal with too.

-----Original Message-----
From: ***@yahoogroups.com [mailto:***@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2017 9:55 AM
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] Re: DX7 ROM Card with 256 x 32 patches

Post by ***@goffart.co.uk [YamahaDX]
Anyone fancy a collaboration? :-)

<http://y.analytics.yahoo.com/fpc.pl?ywarid=515FB27823A7407E&a=10001310322279&js=no&resp=img&cf9=PHOTOMATIC&cf12=CP>


Interesting question. I have items that might be useful:



* a RAM4 and a RAM5 (yes, a real one)
* a licensed copy of Altium Designer for PCB design
* 35 years' experience designing PC boards, including 20 or so routing them

And, I have some time to spend -- with caveats (see below).


________
The bigger question to the group is: How many people want a finished product vs. a DIY kit? Designing the RAM4 (or '5 or '6 ...) in 2017 using 1985 technology doesn't make a lot of sense, IMHO. Most of the parts are obsolete, and new technologies have opened other approaches. The battery could be eliminated, and there are ways to make a slick UI with a small display and a few push switches. However, the project wouldn't be trivial, if it were done properly. In a 'real' product, there are reliability and product life concerns to address -- anyone who is depending on a 30-year-old synth isn't going to want their memory card to fail in a couple of years. And the UI software might be a larger task than the hardware.


I have a business, Ashby Solutions, that makes niche products for musicians and I'm experienced with the pros and cons. When I first joined this group, I asked: Would anyone be interested in purchasing a RAM4-like cartridge with 5-20x memory capability, using modern technology? And if so, at what price? The overall answer to my question was (paraphrasing), "I'm interested, but my funds are limited. Plus, I like building my own. I'd take a PC board layout, or even a raw PCB, but not finished goods."

Therein lies the rub. It would only take a few hours to properly lay out a PCB using 1985-ish technology and create a list of parts with potential suppliers. But the board would have to have a very simple UI (ex: DIP switches), and the list of suppliers is likely to change constantly. A brand new design would be easier to support, but I suspect that the work would run to hundreds of hours. I'd still be interested in designing a new product, but if the potential users are all on no/low budget, I can't justify the time -- at least, until I retire. ;-)


Regards,

-BW

Bruce Wahler
Ashby Solutions.com™
***@ashbysolutions.com <mailto:***@ashbysolutions.com> http://music.ashbysolutions.com
978.597.7008

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Hi Bruce,

I too have been designing professional audio and video equipment for over 25 years, covering all aspects of the process from initial specification, schematics (OrCAD mostly), PCB layout (PADS, OrCAD, etc.), software (C, C++, lots of assemblers), FPGAs (VHDL), and 3D CAD (SolidWorks, FreeCAD).

I agree a finished product would be nice, but indeed one has to consider the potential market. I suspect that most active Yamaha DX users have at some point stumbled upon this group so I don't really expect the number of sales to be sufficient to warrant a significant development. Then again I have under-estimated the size of the market in the past.

When designing my cartridge I had considered a 'smart' version with a miniature I²C OLED display and a micro controller of some sort (possibly a PIC) but my design basically ended up being the simplest I could get away with. Admittedly it is 1985-ish technology (5V DIP ICs, 74LS logic) but hey, it's plugged into an 80's keyboard. The simplicity of the PCB also allows hobbyists to source their own parts and easily construct one if desired.

The EEPROM device I used is a few generations away (2009) from the Xicor devices in Yamaha's catrridges!

[Bruce Wahler [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Hi Ant,

I didn't mean to trivialize your efforts.  There certainly is a place in
the world for low-budget DIY electronics, and you were very gracious to
provide it to the group.  Maybe that's the best fit for the DX RAM card
right now.  My biggest concern is that if it's based on memory ICs that
are somewhat scarce in 2017, they might be near extinct in say, 2022.

Regards,

-BW

Bruce Wahler
Ashby Solutions.com™
***@ashbysolutions.com
http://music.ashbysolutions.com
978.597.7008

Post by ***@goffart.co.uk [YamahaDX]
Hi Bruce,
I too have been designing professional audio and video equipment for
over 25 years, covering all aspects of the process from initial
specification, schematics (OrCAD mostly), PCB layout (PADS, OrCAD,
etc.), software (C, C++, lots of assemblers), FPGAs (VHDL), and 3D CAD
(SolidWorks, FreeCAD).
I agree a finished product would be nice, but indeed one has to
consider the potential market. I suspect that most active Yamaha DX
users have at some point stumbled upon this group so I don't really
expect the number of sales to be sufficient to warrant a significant
development. Then again I have under-estimated the size of the market
in the past.
When designing my cartridge I had considered a 'smart' version with a
miniature I²C OLED display and a micro controller of some sort
(possibly a PIC) but my design basically ended up being the simplest I
could get away with. Admittedly it is 1985-ish technology (5V DIP ICs,
74LS logic) but hey, it's plugged into an 80's keyboard. The
simplicity of the PCB also allows hobbyists to source their own parts
and easily construct one if desired.
The EEPROM device I used is a few generations away (2009) from the
Xicor devices in Yamaha's catrridges!

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

@Bruce

I guess you were addressing me and not grant ;-)
You're totally right, an EPROM is a totally outdated way of storage...but I explained my approach ( use of vestiges of drawer bottom ).

@grant

Nice idea, I would be pleased to send you all the information needed.

I made some attempts in using smaller EPROM as I thought it might be possible...but I encountered "Format conflict" errors I couldn't solve and don't understand why...so I stick on the 27C801.

Anyway, It won't be huge work to reduce the size of the card to use with 4-ways DIP switches and smaller EPROM.

Chris

['Nicole Massey' [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

I've got a RAM4 here (at least I think that's what it is) with a dead battery. I suggest a trade -- I send it to you and you use it to generate your version, then send me two of them so I'll have them for my TX802 machines. Sound fair?

-----Original Message-----
From: ***@yahoogroups.com [mailto:***@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2017 7:37 AM
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [YamahaDX] Re: DX7 ROM Card with 256 x 32 patches



Unfortunately there are a number of electrical differences. As Daniel says, the ADP1 adaptor is an option, albeit expensive.

There does seem to be quite a bit more interest in the RAM4 type than the RAM1.

The original RAM4 uses static RAM devices with a battery. This may have been done because of costs associated with EEPROM at the time. The RAM1 uses EEPROM, but it is a quarter of the storage size. If I were to design a RAM4 compatible cartridge I'd consider using EEPROM as the battery backup would be unnecessary.

I don't have a RAM4 cartridge (or a DX7II/s) myself so it would be tricky to reverse engineer. I took a number of the measurements for my design from an original RAM1 cartridge.

The schematics I have seen for the RAM4 also seem incomplete, particularly concerning the chip enables. Having a real cartridge to compare, probe and measure would be useful but typically $100 for a second hand one would be a significant up-front cost.

Anyone fancy a collaboration? :-)

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Anyone fancy a collaboration? :-)

Where are you located?
I am in the San Francisco Bay Area and could provide a RAM4 and a RAM5 for reverse engineering and even a DX7-II for testing.
--
Antoine

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Hi Antoine, I'm located near Newbury in the UK. Quite a way from SF!

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

I'm feeling adventurous. ;-)

Also if you like, I could utilize the Make Offer thing if you figure out what the charge will be for this would be.

[Daniel Forró [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Thank you for info and link, that’s perfect! I wish you success in selling. Will try to save money for it :-) My DX5 and DX7 can need 4 pieces.

Without the box I would only be concerned for some kind of lateral movement (maybe dangerous for the PCB edge, contacts and cantridge connector inside) when touching the bank selector. How is this?

Daniel Forro

Post by ***@goffart.co.uk [YamahaDX]
Hi Daniel et al,
I have refreshed the eBay listing for my RAM Cartridge boards.
I'm not sure what happened previously - it appears that a reply to the group didn't work. I seem to have quite a lot of issues with Yahoo! groups.
Hopefully this will generate some interest now!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RAM-Cartridge-board-for-Yamaha-DX7-DX9-8-Patch-Banks-RAM1-Compatible/263220870521 <http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RAM-Cartridge-board-for-Yamaha-DX7-DX9-8-Patch-Banks-RAM1-Compatible/263220870521>
Please feel free to ask any questions!
Regards,
Ant.

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Hi Daniel,

The PCB mates quite accurately with the connector in the DX7.
There are two small notches that stop the board moving from side to side.

The frame of the connector slot on my DX7 is plastic so doesn't cause any electrical issues. I've not had any problems with movement. I'll try to get some photos tonight when I get home.

With a box it does plug in more nicely. Unfortunately I don't have a 3D printer myself so I got some example boxes printed by an online service (3D Hubs) using an Form 2 SLA printer. They were quite expensive and would probably add approximately £18 to the cost of each complete cartridge in small numbers.

The box is in two halves that clip together around the PCB. Unfortunately using a low cost filament type 3D printer the accuracy wasn't good enough for a good fit. If I could get the numbers up to over 200 units then injection moulding would be an option!

Ant.

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Hi, I was sure my DX9 didn't have a cartridge port when I owned one.

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Ooh ! This topic begins to become too hard to follow for me. I'm glad that what began as a presentation of a hobby project could resurrect an old one ;-)

I made my board available for order on OSH Park ( search for : name ChrisP and project "rom_DX7_kicad_pcb" ); if someone is still interested in, I would be happy to communicate on the BOM...I can also supply the 27C801 EPROM, my drawer is still filled with them....

Good continuation !

Chris.

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

If anyone in the USA is interested in the EPROM version that started this thread, I can order some of the blank PCBs. They are orderable in sets of 3 and are about $43. So take that, divide by 3 and add US shipping from my place to yours and you are at about $20.50 a pop for a blank PCB. I personally do not have the BOM but Chris mentioned he would make it available.

I have some 27C400's and 27C160's on hand so I might sub one of those in the x8 configuration for myself (if feasible). I haven't looked at the pinouts yet. 256 banks is going to be a lot to manage with a dipswtich so even one with 16 banks (4-pos dipswitch) and slightly smaller EPROM might be worth doing. Assuming it can be done with this board.

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

I've now created an eBay listing for bare PCB:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RAM-Cartridge-board-for-Yamaha-DX7-DX9-Bare-circuit-board-PCB-only/263222971703 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RAM-Cartridge-board-for-Yamaha-DX7-DX9-Bare-circuit-board-PCB-only/263222971703

['[e-mail]' [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

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<p>DX9 ??? Can't read DX7 patches, at least not properly. And doesn't have a Card connector , right?<br><br>MT<br><br><br>Verzonden vanaf mijn Huawei mobiele telefoon<div class="quote"><br><br>-------- Oorspronkelijk bericht --------<br>Onderwerp: Re: [YamahaDX] DX7 ROM Card with 256 x 32 patches<br>Van: "***@goffart.co.uk [YamahaDX]" <YamahaDX><br>Aan: ***@yahoogroups.com<br>Cc: <br><br><br type="attribution"><blockquote class="quote" style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;">


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<p>I&#39;ve now created an eBay listing for bare PCB:<br><br><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RAM-Cartridge-board-for-Yamaha-DX7-DX9-Bare-circuit-board-PCB-only/263222971703">http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RAM-Cartridge-board-for-Yamaha-DX7-DX9-Bare-circuit-board-PCB-only/263222971703</a></p>

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[Daniel Forró [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

You should write in both listings:


 for Yamaha DX1 - DX5 - DX7


Cancel DX9 :-)

Daniel Forro

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RAM-Cartridge-board-for-Yamaha-DX7-DX9-Bare-circuit-board-PCB-only/263222971703 <http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RAM-Cartridge-board-for-Yamaha-DX7-DX9-Bare-circuit-board-PCB-only/263222971703>
_

[Power DX7 [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Hi all



I have been following this thread discussing about EPROM, RAM and Rom
cartridge and I’m excited about the prospect of new DX7 RAM and ROM
cartridges.



I think it’s a great idea for both DX7 RAM and ROM cartridges.





Having a DX7 RAM Cartridge is a great option as you don’t have to touch
anything inside of the DX7 and just put a cartridge into a slot. There are
expansion cards available but I found that you can’t guarantee the full
compatibility with any one of the DX7 (my problems are slowing down of
envelopes when Rate 1 lower than 40, slowing down of pitch envelopes
especially with aftertouch and it actually freezes my DX7). I’ve never had
problems like these prior to installing an upgrade into my DX7. I've been
told that there are several hardware versions and that could be one of the
reasons that I'm having problems with my DX7.



Although it would be nice to have more modern features, I think it’s an
excellent approach to have a simpler and robust design that will last (like
the original DX7 RAM cartridge that I still use since 1987).





DX7 ROM Cartridge



Again, I love the idea of having DX7 ROM cartridges with your own DX7 patch
collections.



However, I have different needs for DX7 ROM cartridge. Instead of personal
use, I would like to purchase a large quantity of DX7 ROM cartridges and
put my Power DX7 signature patches, for public sale. Memory capacity can be
from small (2 banks, 64 patches) to large (8 banks, 256 patches).



Here are demos of Power DX7 signature patches that can be included in
publicly available DX7 ROM cartridges.



Great 80’s music recreated by the DX7 MK1

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLS1dRgO-URAOtezbiN3sn8OPjaBPEmnk7


Comparison of the DX7 patches against the Roland D-50 and Korg M1 , Yamaha
SY77

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLS1dRgO-URANx7za-G2Rr2nNXgg1P6S6B


Comparison of the DX7 patches against legendary analog synths, Minimoog,
OB-Xa, Jupiter-8, JX-8P, CS-80

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLS1dRgO-URANgo3UgjQkwUoETfB547KFj





I’m happy to purchase some kind of a connector (USB) to a Mac with a ROM
writer and put DX7 patches myself. I have some specific requirements
(needs a strong housing with a logo printed, copy protection etc) for my
DX7 ROM cartridge and happy to further discuss these.



If anyone has this solution or working toward it, please feel free to
contact me.



Cheers

Power DX7



YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqbIk_aESNGiB8gpeJkOYVw

Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/Power-DX7-Yamaha-DX7-Synthesiser-713153728845872/

Post by Daniel Forró ***@yahoo.com [YamahaDX]

 for Yamaha DX1 - DX5 - DX7

Cancel DX9 :-)
Daniel Forro
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RAM-Cartridge-board-for-Yamaha-
DX7-DX9-Bare-circuit-board-PCB-only/263222971703
_

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Copy protection...

Does not exist.

[Daniel Forró [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Hey Jan, you were few seconds faster. I lost time with writing more words :-)

Daniel Forro

Post by ***@yahoo.com [YamahaDX]

Copy protection...

Does not exist.

[Daniel Forró [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Copy protection for DX7 Yamaha ROM cartridge? I’ve never heard about anything like this
 Data from ROM cartridges is possible to copy to internal RAM, one by one or whole bank, and then transmit one by one, or whole bank as SysEx. It’s a feature of OS. I don’t think there’s a way how to protect data against copying. Lot of banks from commercial ROM’s (including all those 12 offered by Yamaha - VRC series) can be downloaded from internet...

Even when there’s such way, it will still be possible to see all voice + function data on the display in EDIT mode, so anybody can copy your precious patches by hand, and fill numbers into patch list and set it manually.

Let’s wait for the answer from our technical gurus :-)

Daniel Forro

Post by Power DX7 ***@gmail.com [YamahaDX]
Hi all
I have been following this thread discussing about EPROM, RAM and Rom cartridge and I’m excited about the prospect of new DX7 RAM and ROM cartridges.
I think it’s a great idea for both DX7 RAM and ROM cartridges.
Having a DX7 RAM Cartridge is a great option as you don’t have to touch anything inside of the DX7 and just put a cartridge into a slot. There are expansion cards available but I found that you can’t guarantee the full compatibility with any one of the DX7 (my problems are slowing down of envelopes when Rate 1 lower than 40, slowing down of pitch envelopes especially with aftertouch and it actually freezes my DX7). I’ve never had problems like these prior to installing an upgrade into my DX7. I've been told that there are several hardware versions and that could be one of the reasons that I'm having problems with my DX7.
Although it would be nice to have more modern features, I think it’s an excellent approach to have a simpler and robust design that will last (like the original DX7 RAM cartridge that I still use since 1987).
DX7 ROM Cartridge
Again, I love the idea of having DX7 ROM cartridges with your own DX7 patch collections.
However, I have different needs for DX7 ROM cartridge. Instead of personal use, I would like to purchase a large quantity of DX7 ROM cartridges and put my Power DX7 signature patches, for public sale. Memory capacity can be from small (2 banks, 64 patches) to large (8 banks, 256 patches).
Here are demos of Power DX7 signature patches that can be included in publicly available DX7 ROM cartridges.
Great 80’s music recreated by the DX7 MK1
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLS1dRgO-URAOtezbiN3sn8OPjaBPEmnk7 <https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLS1dRgO-URAOtezbiN3sn8OPjaBPEmnk7>
Comparison of the DX7 patches against the Roland D-50 and Korg M1 , Yamaha SY77
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLS1dRgO-URANx7za-G2Rr2nNXgg1P6S6B <https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLS1dRgO-URANx7za-G2Rr2nNXgg1P6S6B>
Comparison of the DX7 patches against legendary analog synths, Minimoog, OB-Xa, Jupiter-8, JX-8P, CS-80
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLS1dRgO-URANgo3UgjQkwUoETfB547KFj <https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLS1dRgO-URANgo3UgjQkwUoETfB547KFj>
I’m happy to purchase some kind of a connector (USB) to a Mac with a ROM writer and put DX7 patches myself. I have some specific requirements (needs a strong housing with a logo printed, copy protection etc) for my DX7 ROM cartridge and happy to further discuss these.
If anyone has this solution or working toward it, please feel free to contact me.
Cheers
Power DX7
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqbIk_aESNGiB8gpeJkOYVw <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqbIk_aESNGiB8gpeJkOYVw>
Facebook: https://wwwfacebook.com/Power-DX7-Yamaha-DX7-Synthesiser-713153728845872/ <https://www.facebook.com/Power-DX7-Yamaha-DX7-Synthesiser-713153728845872/>

 for Yamaha DX1 - DX5 - DX7

Cancel DX9 :-)
Daniel Forro

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RAM-Cartridge-board-for-Yamaha-DX7-DX9-Bare-circuit-board-PCB-only/263222971703 <http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RAM-Cartridge-board-for-Yamaha-DX7-DX9-Bare-circuit-board-PCB-only/263222971703>
_

[Power DX7 [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Thanks Daniel

I had impression that some of commercially available cartridges had copy
protection (or whatever it is called). Some cartridge won't allow you to
upload data on to the DX7 (a viewer on my YouTube channel described a
cartridge which didn't allow upload of data onto his DX7). May be I miss
understood what he described, but if that's possible, then I will
definitely need it for my DX7 Rom cartridges.

Yes, I would love to hear what many technical experts have to say around my
needs.

Cheers,
Power DX7

Post by Daniel Forró ***@yahoo.com [YamahaDX]
Copy protection for DX7 Yamaha ROM cartridge? I’ve never heard about
anything like this
 Data from ROM cartridges is possible to copy to
internal RAM, one by one or whole bank, and then transmit one by one, or
whole bank as SysEx. It’s a feature of OS. I don’t think there’s a way how
to protect data against copying. Lot of banks from commercial ROM’s
(including all those 12 offered by Yamaha - VRC series) can be downloaded
from internet...
Even when there’s such way, it will still be possible to see all voice +
function data on the display in EDIT mode, so anybody can copy your
precious patches by hand, and fill numbers into patch list and set it
manually.
Let’s wait for the answer from our technical gurus :-)
Daniel Forro
Hi all
I have been following this thread discussing about EPROM, RAM and Rom
cartridge and I’m excited about the prospect of new DX7 RAM and ROM
cartridges.
I think it’s a great idea for both DX7 RAM and ROM cartridges.
Having a DX7 RAM Cartridge is a great option as you don’t have to touch
anything inside of the DX7 and just put a cartridge into a slot. There are
expansion cards available but I found that you can’t guarantee the full
compatibility with any one of the DX7 (my problems are slowing down of
envelopes when Rate 1 lower than 40, slowing down of pitch envelopes
especially with aftertouch and it actually freezes my DX7). I’ve never had
problems like these prior to installing an upgrade into my DX7. I've been
told that there are several hardware versions and that could be one of the
reasons that I'm having problems with my DX7.
Although it would be nice to have more modern features, I think it’s an
excellent approach to have a simpler and robust design that will last (like
the original DX7 RAM cartridge that I still use since 1987).
DX7 ROM Cartridge
Again, I love the idea of having DX7 ROM cartridges with your own DX7 patch collections.
However, I have different needs for DX7 ROM cartridge. Instead of
personal use, I would like to purchase a large quantity of DX7 ROM
cartridges and put my Power DX7 signature patches, for public sale. Memory
capacity can be from small (2 banks, 64 patches) to large (8 banks, 256
patches).
Here are demos of Power DX7 signature patches that can be included in
publicly available DX7 ROM cartridges.
Great 80’s music recreated by the DX7 MK1
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLS1dRgO-URAOtezbiN3sn8OPjaBPEmnk7
Comparison of the DX7 patches against the Roland D-50 and Korg M1 , Yamaha SY77
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLS1dRgO-URANx7za-G2Rr2nNXgg1P6S6B
Comparison of the DX7 patches against legendary analog synths, Minimoog,
OB-Xa, Jupiter-8, JX-8P, CS-80
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLS1dRgO-URANgo3UgjQkwUoETfB547KFj
I’m happy to purchase some kind of a connector (USB) to a Mac with a ROM
writer and put DX7 patches myself. I have some specific requirements
(needs a strong housing with a logo printed, copy protection etc) for my
DX7 ROM cartridge and happy to further discuss these.
If anyone has this solution or working toward it, please feel free to contact me.
Cheers
Power DX7
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqbIk_aESNGiB8gpeJkOYVw
Facebook: https://wwwfacebook.com/Power-DX7-Yamaha-DX7-
Synthesiser-713153728845872/
<https://www.facebook.com/Power-DX7-Yamaha-DX7-Synthesiser-713153728845872/>

Post by Daniel Forró ***@yahoo.com [YamahaDX]

 for Yamaha DX1 - DX5 - DX7

Cancel DX9 :-)
Daniel Forro
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RAM-Cartridge-board-for-Yamaha-DX7
-DX9-Bare-circuit-board-PCB-only/263222971703
_

[Daniel Forró [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

I’m afraid copy protection is not possible.

That person could be wrong, maybe he forget to switch off internal memory protect when he wanted to copy cartridge data
 People are lazy to read manuals and do such funny mistakes.

Let’s wait to hear more voices.

Daniel Forro

Post by ***@goffart.co.uk [YamahaDX]
Thanks Daniel
I had impression that some of commercially available cartridges had copy protection (or whatever it is called). Some cartridge won't allow you to upload data on to the DX7 (a viewer on my YouTube channel described a cartridge which didn't allow upload of data onto his DX7). May be I miss understood what he described, but if that's possible, then I will definitely need it for my DX7 Rom cartridges.
Yes, I would love to hear what many technical experts have to say around my needs.

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Thanks Daniel, I've updated the listings.

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Hi everybody,

Back from work ;-)

Thank you all for your comment, sure it'll help me to improve my design !

@Ramiro & Daniel

I join to this message the list of the SYSEX I've included in my .BIN...Some are well known ( it begins with the 4 ROM banks supplied by Yamaha ), and other are pretty exotic, their name will tell you not much ( remember I picked the up randomly...).
This list was created by my now-enhanced Python script which automatically build the .txt file as and when you add a SYSEX to the whole .bin file.
As Daniel said, you can tell or send me the SYSEXes you want to be included in the EPROM and I'll burn them.

@Jonas

Thank you for your encouragement !
I'm still looking for the right way to make the card available on OSH Park...they talk about "shared projects", I guess it's related ;-)...
As previously said, the shipping costs could be veeeeery expensive, so, due to them, I don't know for now how to keep the cost of a complete card in reasonable proportions. I guess a bare PCB could be sent as a letter and not a parcel, the price would be cheaper...

@helfried2de

sorry, someone said here the cartridge connector is not quite the same as the mk1 DX7's...I don't own a DX7II, so I can't build and test a dedicated design...

@Grant & Jojol

Of course an enclosure would be a top ! The Yamaha cartridge enclosure is too small....a C64 cartridge can be the right choice !
I'm not very skilled in 3D modelling, I'll leave the enclosure question to someone else ;-)...

@aero

sorry, I didn't mean in no way to interfere with your work ! And as Daniel told you, yours is a RAM card, not the same destination as mine...

Chris.

[Martin Tarenskeen [e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

Post by ***@yahoo.com [YamahaDX]
sorry, someone said here the cartridge connector is not quite the same as the mk1 DX7's...I don't own a DX7II, so I can't build and test a
dedicated design...

Not only only the cartridge connector is different, also the DX7II has
additional data on top of the 128 bytes per patch. The can read DX7 Mk.I
data however, and it can read DX7 Mk1 cartridges using a special
adaptor (ADP1). To use your 256x32 patches card in a DX7II would require a
connector/case similar to that ADP1 adaptor.

[[e-mail] [YamahaDX]]

I post here a PDF of the components used in my design.
Don't pay attention to the edge cuts, it's a rough attempt to create a beveled card ;-)

Chris