Discussion:
Saving patches on TX81Z
grandnoise
2012-09-16 18:03:10 UTC
Permalink
I have just got a Yamaha TX81Z and really like the sounds on the unit but I can't for the life of me work out how to save my sounds that I have made either to the unit or via sysex, could someone give me some pointers?
Martin Tarenskeen
2012-09-17 06:43:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by grandnoise
I have just got a Yamaha TX81Z
Congratulations!
Post by grandnoise
and really like the sounds on the unit
So do we
Post by grandnoise
but I can't for the life of me work out how to save
my sounds that I have made either to the unit
Read the manual. If you don't have the paper one, you can find PDF
versions online.
Post by grandnoise
or via sysex, could someone give me some pointers?
You can use something like MIDI-OX to save your SysEx data. Also the next
release of DX/TXconvert - my DX/TX SysEx file conversion & manipulation
toolkit - will support direct saving/loading DX/TX sysex data to/from disk
via MIDI. I will soon announce the release in this group.


One first hint to find an answer to your questions: you have to switch
memory-protect off to be able to store and keep patches in the TX81Z
memory.

But first start reading this:
http://www2.yamaha.co.jp/manual/pdf/emi/english/synth/TX81ZE.pdf
--
MT
Daniel Forró
2012-09-17 09:09:45 UTC
Permalink
It's always possible to work on edition of only one sound, as there's
only one edit buffer. So I don't understand little bit what do you
mean when you say "to save my sounds". If you can't save the first
sound you are working on, it's kept in edit buffer even after
switching machine off, and can be recalled back by Recall Edit (manual
page 32), but that's all. You can't program more sounds together,
always only one in time.

Second what I don't understand - how you can be able to program your
own sounds in relatively complex FM synthesis, when you don't know
such simple thing how to save your creation. OK, maybe some people
have magic abilities and can fully understand theory of relativity or
string theory even without knowledge what's the result of 7 times 15 :-)

So first learn how to save voice:
- read manual, page 11. Sometimes it's really good to read manuals as
some functions are not so obvious, logical and straightforward, even
when they are simple. Sometimes they are little bit hidden or need
special order of button pushing. On many instruments this order is far
from logical, more like going to the right pocket with left hand.

- after editing the voice press Play/Perform. First "p" on upper line
on display will be small character - sign of edited voice.

- press and keep Store/EG Copy. On display there will be number of the
last original voice you have edited or so, it's not important.
Important is the number on right side you will select with Dec/Inc
buttons - target memory where you want to write your new voice. Check
before editing which voices you don't need and can be overwritten by
new voices.

- release Store button, check display if target number is OK and
confirm your selection by pressing Inc button, or get out without
saving (if you do mistake in selection) by pressing Dec button. You
can repeat the process, or in the worse case use Recall Edit.

- to be able to store data, memory protection must be set to "off".
It's third page in Utility menu. If by chance you forget to set it
before edition and storing, there will be alert and you can do it
during storing.

Another power of this instrument is in its Performances, so I would
recommend to learn how to program them, save and transmit. Read
manual, pages 36-42.

How to do SysEx dump:
- read manual, pages 26, 68-70

- if you haven't your sounds (or performances, microtonal scales,
effect settings, one finger chords, program change table, system
setup) stored in internal memory, you can't send them out as SysEx dump.

- switch Exclusive in Utility/MIDI Control must be "on", for
simplicity leave Basic Receive Channel and Transmit Channel set to 1
always.

- data + additional data for one voice (VCED + ACED) will be sent
whenever voice is selected, or when you Recall Edit or Init Voice.

- if you want to send all Internal Voice RAM (bank I, 32 voices), go
in Single Play Mode to Utility/MIDI control, select Voice Transmit,
start recording in recording device, and press Inc on TX81z.

- recording device can be hardware or software sequencer, MIDI data
filer (like Yamaha MDF1/2/3), or software editor, librarian or SysEx
utility. Learn how to work with it to record SysEx data (sometimes
it's necessary to switch off filter to enable receiving and recording
SysEx data). Keep tempo always the same for receiving and transmitting
back to instrument, for example BPM = 120.

- when you want to send data back, Memory protect switch in instrument
must be off, Exclusive switch on. Receiving channel must agree with
channel on which data were transmitted, keep it always to 1. These old
Yamaha instrument used Basic MIDI channel as Device number, later
instruments are more clever.

Good luck!

Daniel Forro
Post by grandnoise
I have just got a Yamaha TX81Z and really like the sounds on the
unit but I can't for the life of me work out how to save my sounds
that I have made either to the unit or via sysex, could someone give
me some pointers?
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
charlie midi gfa
2012-09-17 11:03:46 UTC
Permalink
i use bome's SendSx for capturing and sending system exclusive on the
pc..but if i use the atari i use a program i wrote to do so.

read teh manual and all i can say is 4 years is a good focal point to get
serious with these machines

charles



----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Forró" <***@tiscali.cz>
To: <***@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 5:09 AM
Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] Saving patches on TX81Z
Post by Daniel Forró
It's always possible to work on edition of only one sound, as there's
only one edit buffer. So I don't understand little bit what do you
mean when you say "to save my sounds". If you can't save the first
sound you are working on, it's kept in edit buffer even after
switching machine off, and can be recalled back by Recall Edit (manual
page 32), but that's all. You can't program more sounds together,
always only one in time.
Second what I don't understand - how you can be able to program your
own sounds in relatively complex FM synthesis, when you don't know
such simple thing how to save your creation. OK, maybe some people
have magic abilities and can fully understand theory of relativity or
string theory even without knowledge what's the result of 7 times 15 :-)
- read manual, page 11. Sometimes it's really good to read manuals as
some functions are not so obvious, logical and straightforward, even
when they are simple. Sometimes they are little bit hidden or need
special order of button pushing. On many instruments this order is far
from logical, more like going to the right pocket with left hand.
- after editing the voice press Play/Perform. First "p" on upper line
on display will be small character - sign of edited voice.
- press and keep Store/EG Copy. On display there will be number of the
last original voice you have edited or so, it's not important.
Important is the number on right side you will select with Dec/Inc
buttons - target memory where you want to write your new voice. Check
before editing which voices you don't need and can be overwritten by
new voices.
- release Store button, check display if target number is OK and
confirm your selection by pressing Inc button, or get out without
saving (if you do mistake in selection) by pressing Dec button. You
can repeat the process, or in the worse case use Recall Edit.
- to be able to store data, memory protection must be set to "off".
It's third page in Utility menu. If by chance you forget to set it
before edition and storing, there will be alert and you can do it
during storing.
Another power of this instrument is in its Performances, so I would
recommend to learn how to program them, save and transmit. Read
manual, pages 36-42.
- read manual, pages 26, 68-70
- if you haven't your sounds (or performances, microtonal scales,
effect settings, one finger chords, program change table, system
setup) stored in internal memory, you can't send them out as SysEx dump.
- switch Exclusive in Utility/MIDI Control must be "on", for
simplicity leave Basic Receive Channel and Transmit Channel set to 1
always.
- data + additional data for one voice (VCED + ACED) will be sent
whenever voice is selected, or when you Recall Edit or Init Voice.
- if you want to send all Internal Voice RAM (bank I, 32 voices), go
in Single Play Mode to Utility/MIDI control, select Voice Transmit,
start recording in recording device, and press Inc on TX81z.
- recording device can be hardware or software sequencer, MIDI data
filer (like Yamaha MDF1/2/3), or software editor, librarian or SysEx
utility. Learn how to work with it to record SysEx data (sometimes
it's necessary to switch off filter to enable receiving and recording
SysEx data). Keep tempo always the same for receiving and transmitting
back to instrument, for example BPM = 120.
- when you want to send data back, Memory protect switch in instrument
must be off, Exclusive switch on. Receiving channel must agree with
channel on which data were transmitted, keep it always to 1. These old
Yamaha instrument used Basic MIDI channel as Device number, later
instruments are more clever.
Good luck!
Daniel Forro
Post by grandnoise
I have just got a Yamaha TX81Z and really like the sounds on the
unit but I can't for the life of me work out how to save my sounds
that I have made either to the unit or via sysex, could someone give
me some pointers?
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
Daniel Forró
2012-09-17 12:00:25 UTC
Permalink
I woudn't be so pesimistic. Maybe FM synthesis in DX7 or AFM in SY99
need some time for full understanding, and lot of time for practical
programming.

But TX81z is not so complex with 4 operators and few parameters, and
all those utility and way of control is pretty standard.

Besides - quite frankly said - who really needs to program those
machines nowadays after 30 years of their existence on the market?
There are thousands of sounds everywhere, most of them just slight
variations of basic patterns. Possibilities are not unlimited. So when
we need another small variation, it's enough to start from finished
sound and do some changes. Which is anyway a good method how to learn
FM synthesis - to analyze finished sounds.

Let's not forget that lot of FM sounds became quite unnecessary and
useless - like most of simulations of acoustic instruments including
drums and percussions - after samplers, romplers and physical modeling
instruments came to the world.

IMHO FM synthesis is best for additive, percussive, plucked,
clangorous, metallic and inharmonic sounds, to name some typical.
Maybe some lead synthesizer, bass and brass sounds, and electronic
textures or modulated sounds. For sure we can't expect from it good
subtractive analog synths, pad sounds, grand piano, violin or
saxophone. Truth is any GM/GS/XG sample based tone generator has
better...

Daniel Forro
Post by charlie midi gfa
read teh manual and all i can say is 4 years is a good focal point to get
serious with these machines
charles
jammie
2012-09-17 12:34:33 UTC
Permalink
yes funky claves e-pianos

wierd synth sounds and fx

is the best thing for these synths no need to emulate anything any more as like daniel said theres better devices for that with gb libraries capturing every detail

bass sounds are great in fm clangerous bass sounds which are impossible todo on analog

then sample them and put them through resonat filters then you have best of both worlds

thats what i do with my dss1-x i make patches on the tx81z then make sf2 from them and i then put the samples into the dss1 and use the fat bastard analog filter squelch the fm clangerous bass best of both or get a sy99 which can also do this
----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel Forró
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] Saving patches on TX81Z



I woudn't be so pesimistic. Maybe FM synthesis in DX7 or AFM in SY99
need some time for full understanding, and lot of time for practical
programming.

But TX81z is not so complex with 4 operators and few parameters, and
all those utility and way of control is pretty standard.

Besides - quite frankly said - who really needs to program those
machines nowadays after 30 years of their existence on the market?
There are thousands of sounds everywhere, most of them just slight
variations of basic patterns. Possibilities are not unlimited. So when
we need another small variation, it's enough to start from finished
sound and do some changes. Which is anyway a good method how to learn
FM synthesis - to analyze finished sounds.

Let's not forget that lot of FM sounds became quite unnecessary and
useless - like most of simulations of acoustic instruments including
drums and percussions - after samplers, romplers and physical modeling
instruments came to the world.

IMHO FM synthesis is best for additive, percussive, plucked,
clangorous, metallic and inharmonic sounds, to name some typical.
Maybe some lead synthesizer, bass and brass sounds, and electronic
textures or modulated sounds. For sure we can't expect from it good
subtractive analog synths, pad sounds, grand piano, violin or
saxophone. Truth is any GM/GS/XG sample based tone generator has
better...

Daniel Forro
read teh manual and all i can say is 4 years is a good focal point
to get
serious with these machines
charles
Lee Borrell
2012-09-17 13:40:01 UTC
Permalink
Can't say for the TX81z particularly but the general scheme (apart from the buffer already mentioned) is to make sure the memory lock is OFF before saving anything internally and then using the store procedure (which presumably is in the manual).
To dump SYSx - the OUT socket needs connecting to the IN of the storage unit (PC) and can be prompted from the sending unit - on most yamaha equipment it is also possible to send a prompt from the storage system (PC) if the other cable (IN to OUT) is connected.
 On DX the parameter SYSINFO needs to be set to ON,then the option to transmit SYSx is available - at which point the memory will be dumped.

I use MIDI-ox to pick it up on the PC.

http://templarseries.atspace.com/sysx.html


________________________________
From: grandnoise <***@hotmail.com>
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, 16 September 2012, 19:03
Subject: [YamahaDX] Saving patches on TX81Z


 
I have just got a Yamaha TX81Z and really like the sounds on the unit but I can't for the life of me work out how to save my sounds that I have made either to the unit or via sysex, could someone give me some pointers?
Daniel Forró
2012-09-17 14:32:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lee Borrell
Can't say for the TX81z particularly but the general scheme (apart
from the buffer already mentioned) is to make sure the memory lock
is OFF before saving anything internally and then using the store
procedure (which presumably is in the manual).
If it's on, TX81z will cry and it can be switched off even during
storing process. But It's good to learn to switch off before editing
and storing.
Post by Lee Borrell
To dump SYSx - the OUT socket needs connecting to the IN of the
storage unit (PC) and can be prompted from the sending unit - on
most yamaha equipment it is also possible to send a prompt from the
storage system (PC) if the other cable (IN to OUT) is connected.
Yes, this is possible, usually librarian, editor or SysEx utility can
send such request. I didn't mention it as manual start of recording
and transmitting is more simple and straightforward (in the case of
hardware or software sequencer or MIDI data filer), or to activate
recording in SysEx utility and then start transmitting manually on
instrument.
Post by Lee Borrell
On DX the parameter SYSINFO needs to be set to ON,then the option
to transmit SYSx is available - at which point the memory will be
dumped.
I use MIDI-ox to pick it up on the PC.
http://templarseries.atspace.com/sysx.html
I'm on Mac, SysEx Librarian is good:

http://www.snoize.com/SysExLibrarian/

Daniel Forro
charlie midi gfa
2012-09-18 00:12:43 UTC
Permalink
just insist he read the manual ,
what else can he ask for
our sounds ?

charles


----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Forró" <***@tiscali.cz>
To: <***@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 10:32 AM
Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] Saving patches on TX81Z
Post by Daniel Forró
Post by Lee Borrell
Can't say for the TX81z particularly but the general scheme (apart
from the buffer already mentioned) is to make sure the memory lock
is OFF before saving anything internally and then using the store
procedure (which presumably is in the manual).
If it's on, TX81z will cry and it can be switched off even during
storing process. But It's good to learn to switch off before editing
and storing.
Post by Lee Borrell
To dump SYSx - the OUT socket needs connecting to the IN of the
storage unit (PC) and can be prompted from the sending unit - on
most yamaha equipment it is also possible to send a prompt from the
storage system (PC) if the other cable (IN to OUT) is connected.
Yes, this is possible, usually librarian, editor or SysEx utility can
send such request. I didn't mention it as manual start of recording
and transmitting is more simple and straightforward (in the case of
hardware or software sequencer or MIDI data filer), or to activate
recording in SysEx utility and then start transmitting manually on
instrument.
Post by Lee Borrell
On DX the parameter SYSINFO needs to be set to ON,then the option
to transmit SYSx is available - at which point the memory will be
dumped.
I use MIDI-ox to pick it up on the PC.
http://templarseries.atspace.com/sysx.html
http://www.snoize.com/SysExLibrarian/
Daniel Forro
Lee Borrell
2012-09-18 01:00:54 UTC
Permalink
The manual is a good place to start - need some specific questions if the manual is not helping.



________________________________
From: charlie midi gfa <***@sympatico.ca>
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, 18 September 2012, 1:12
Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] Saving patches on TX81Z


 
just insist he read the manual ,
what else can he ask for
our sounds ?

charles

----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Forró" <***@tiscali.cz>
To: <***@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 10:32 AM
Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] Saving patches on TX81Z
Post by Daniel Forró
Post by Lee Borrell
Can't say for the TX81z particularly but the general scheme (apart
from the buffer already mentioned) is to make sure the memory lock
is OFF before saving anything internally and then using the store
procedure (which presumably is in the manual).
If it's on, TX81z will cry and it can be switched off even during
storing process. But It's good to learn to switch off before editing
and storing.
Post by Lee Borrell
To dump SYSx - the OUT socket needs connecting to the IN of the
storage unit (PC) and can be prompted from the sending unit - on
most yamaha equipment it is also possible to send a prompt from the
storage system (PC) if the other cable (IN to OUT) is connected.
Yes, this is possible, usually librarian, editor or SysEx utility can
send such request. I didn't mention it as manual start of recording
and transmitting is more simple and straightforward (in the case of
hardware or software sequencer or MIDI data filer), or to activate
recording in SysEx utility and then start transmitting manually on
instrument.
Post by Lee Borrell
On DX the parameter SYSINFO needs to be set to ON,then the option
to transmit SYSx is available - at which point the memory will be
dumped.
I use MIDI-ox to pick it up on the PC.
http://templarseries.atspace.com/sysx.html
http://www.snoize.com/SysExLibrarian/
Daniel Forro
Lee Borrell
2012-09-17 13:46:32 UTC
Permalink
Just found this from our own group:


TX81Z - sysex upload problem < Prev  Next >
Posted By: * rene9l65
*

*
* Sun Apr 17, 2005 7:54 pm  | * Options
*

*

*


I'm owner of a TX81Z starting from one month ago.

I used Midi-OX SW to handle sysex parameters. I saved all TX81Z data
using UTILITY -> TRANSMIT VOICES etc. PERF etc.: all it was OK.

Now when I try to send sysex data from PC to TX81Z to upload all 32
patches (4104 sysex bytes) only the 1st and the 2nd one Patches (I01
and I02) are correct; the other one have incorrect name (like $$$$$$#@)
and generate no sound.

May be a sync problem ? How delay value (ms) must be setup ?

Thanks in advance, rene So transmission is on UTILITY on the TX which I believe is also true of the DX11 (which apparently the Tx is a rack version of) - I forgot to mention that machines with performance memories often have the ability to send the performance setup as another sysx file and thence you need to transmit TWO sysx files back to the machine to get the correct setups for the patches.




________________________________
From: grandnoise <***@hotmail.com>
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, 16 September 2012, 19:03
Subject: [YamahaDX] Saving patches on TX81Z


 
I have just got a Yamaha TX81Z and really like the sounds on the unit but I can't for the life of me work out how to save my sounds that I have made either to the unit or via sysex, could someone give me some pointers?
Chet Lamm
2012-09-22 19:39:36 UTC
Permalink
Anybody know where I can get a ton of pre-programmed patches for the TX81Z.
No doubt, someone more capable than myself and programmed interesting 'timbral rhythmics' and textures or classic patches that can be downloaded as .syx.
 
I've been able to get the same for my M1, Kawai K1 and Korg 0 series and have been using them.
 
Suggestions?
Martin Tarenskeen
2012-09-22 21:27:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chet Lamm
Anybody know where I can get a ton of pre-programmed patches for the TX81Z.
No doubt, someone more capable than myself and programmed interesting
'timbral rhythmics' and textures or classic patches that can be downloaded
as .syx.
There is a lot. Some hints for a Google search:

- "tx81z patches" should give you some search results

- Don't limit your search to tx81z. Also try: dx100, dx27, dx21, dx11,
ys100, ys200, tq5, v50. Patches for these synths are usable on a tx81z.
(not always, but trying doesn't hurt)

- Don't limit your search to ".syx" files. Often sysex files have another
file extensions than ".syx", but are compatible sysex files anyway.

- But very often patches are stored in other fileformats than pure sysex.
This is where you will need TXconvert. It will most probably be able to
convert the strange fileformats to pure and compatible .syx files for the
tx81z. (if not: let me know!) You can find TXconvert here:

http://dxconvert.martintarenskeen.nl

- Maybe some of the other readers can mail a nice list of URL's
where to find TX81Z(-compatible) patches and libraries on the internet ...
--
MT
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