Other DX7 books?

[eboatsmfine]

Hello, I have the book "The Complete DX7" by Howard Massey which is great, but am wondering if there are any other good books on programming the DX7 or other FM synths?

I like the "Recipes" in Massey's book and wonder if more of this type of material can be found elsewhere? Would be interesting to have recipes for creating different orchestral instruments for example.

[Daniel Forró]

Massey's book is good, I like it, too.

I had one book in German language, "Das komplette DX7 Handbuch" (The
Complete DX7 Handbook) written by excellent programmer Peter Gorges.

Then there's the very first DX7 book from Yasuhiko Fukuda book -
Yamaha DX7 Digital Synthesizer, published by Rittor Music in 1984 in
Japanese, and in English by AMSCO in 1985.

Then there's that highly theoretical Chowning + Bristow's "FM Theory &
Applications", explaining Bessel's functions and other math behind FM.

Hal Leonard published in 1986 "Yamaha DX7 Easy - a complete guide to
the DX synthesizer", and in 1987 "Yamaha DX7 II D/ II FD - a complete
guide to the DX synthesizer".

I have all of them including Massey book for DX7 II (and that one for
DX7 as PDF).

<envy mode ON>

Now Paul has something new and until now not known.

<envy mode OFF>

And still there must be somewhere those series of Supplemental Books
by Yamaha...

But don't expect it has big sense to try to make orchestral
instruments on DX7. This is really not the best field for FM
synthesis, with the exception of tuned percussion, bells and some
plucked instruments. For such task sample based instruments or
physical modeling is better.
Strong point for DX are electronic colors, inharmonic sounds,
clangorous sounds, additive harmonic and inharmonic spectra, organ
sounds...

Daniel Forro


On 9 Aug, 2013, at 4:58 AM, eboatsmfine wrote:

> Hello, I have the book "The Complete DX7" by Howard Massey which is
> great, but am wondering if there are any other good books on
> programming the DX7 or other FM synths?
>
> I like the "Recipes" in Massey's book and wonder if more of this
> type of material can be found elsewhere? Would be interesting to
> have recipes for creating different orchestral instruments for
> example.

[Richard Gelderblom]

I have a book here called 'Power Play DX!' from Steve DeFuria.
'Keyboard, Pitch Bend & Control Techniques for the Yamaha DX7 II'

It has voices and performances as well (hardcopy, no sysex...)

If anyone's interested I can try to make a PDF out of it ?

rg,rg


On 9 August 2013 07:56, Daniel Forró <***@tiscali.cz> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Massey's book is good, I like it, too.
>
> I had one book in German language, "Das komplette DX7 Handbuch" (The
> Complete DX7 Handbook) written by excellent programmer Peter Gorges.
>
> Then there's the very first DX7 book from Yasuhiko Fukuda book -
> Yamaha DX7 Digital Synthesizer, published by Rittor Music in 1984 in
> Japanese, and in English by AMSCO in 1985.
>
> Then there's that highly theoretical Chowning + Bristow's "FM Theory &
> Applications", explaining Bessel's functions and other math behind FM.
>
> Hal Leonard published in 1986 "Yamaha DX7 Easy - a complete guide to
> the DX synthesizer", and in 1987 "Yamaha DX7 II D/ II FD - a complete
> guide to the DX synthesizer".
>
> I have all of them including Massey book for DX7 II (and that one for
> DX7 as PDF).
>
> <envy mode ON>
>
> Now Paul has something new and until now not known.
>
> <envy mode OFF>
>
> And still there must be somewhere those series of Supplemental Books
> by Yamaha...
>
> But don't expect it has big sense to try to make orchestral
> instruments on DX7. This is really not the best field for FM
> synthesis, with the exception of tuned percussion, bells and some
> plucked instruments. For such task sample based instruments or
> physical modeling is better.
> Strong point for DX are electronic colors, inharmonic sounds,
> clangorous sounds, additive harmonic and inharmonic spectra, organ
> sounds...
>
> Daniel Forro
>
> On 9 Aug, 2013, at 4:58 AM, eboatsmfine wrote:
>
> > Hello, I have the book "The Complete DX7" by Howard Massey which is
> > great, but am wondering if there are any other good books on
> > programming the DX7 or other FM synths?
> >
> > I like the "Recipes" in Massey's book and wonder if more of this
> > type of material can be found elsewhere? Would be interesting to
> > have recipes for creating different orchestral instruments for
> > example.
>
>
>

[Daniel Forró]

That would be very nice of you, if only it's not too many pages. I can
imagine it's time consuming.

I will try to remember where I have found some books with voice and
performances if somebody is interested. And Chowning book is somewhere
on the net as PDF.

I also have book from Steve DeFuria - for WX7 Wind Controller, with
some patch lists for DX7 and TX81z. Recently I haven't enough time to
scan it.

I remember more books for DX:

In French:
A. Cassagnau; Maitrisez votre DX Yamaha, 90 pages. Price from 23 to 33
Euro, order here

http://www.maitrisez-la-fm.com/sons-cadre.html

Alexander Publishing had possible something many years ago.

And then there are books from AMSCO with patch lists:
600 Voices for the DX7
four books: 100 Patches for DX7

Daniel Forro


On 9 Aug, 2013, at 4:15 PM, Richard Gelderblom wrote:

> I have a book here called 'Power Play DX!' from Steve DeFuria.
> 'Keyboard, Pitch Bend & Control Techniques for the Yamaha DX7 II'
>
> It has voices and performances as well (hardcopy, no sysex...)
>
> If anyone's interested I can try to make a PDF out of it ?
>
> rg,rg

[Daniel Forró]

I was wrong, today not so much coffee, too hot weather...

The book "Expressive FM Applications" was written by Sal Gallina, see
here:

http://www.patchmanmusic.com/SalGallina.html

I got it in 1988 when I bought WX7 Wind Controller...

Daniel Forro

On 9 Aug, 2013, at 4:58 PM, Daniel Forró wrote:

> I also have book from Steve DeFuria - for WX7 Wind Controller, with
> some patch lists for DX7 and TX81z. Recently I haven't enough time to
> scan it.
>

[Paul]

Hi,

i went on the Sal Gallina site hoping there was a PDF download of the book, but there was only a photo of it. Does this book only apply to the WX7 WIND SYNTH, or is it a universal FM manual ??

Cheers.

Paul


--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Forró <***@...> wrote:
>
> I was wrong, today not so much coffee, too hot weather...
>
> The book "Expressive FM Applications" was written by Sal Gallina, see
> here:
>
> http://www.patchmanmusic.com/SalGallina.html
>
> I got it in 1988 when I bought WX7 Wind Controller...
>
> Daniel Forro
>
> On 9 Aug, 2013, at 4:58 PM, Daniel Forró wrote:
>
> > I also have book from Steve DeFuria - for WX7 Wind Controller, with
> > some patch lists for DX7 and TX81z. Recently I haven't enough time to
> > scan it.
> >
>

[Paul]

There is a Sal Gallina book for sale on eby but is very expensive :-

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Expressive-FM-Applications-Book-Cassette-by-Sal-Gallina-Yamaha-WX7-DX7-II-/251261885178?pt=US_Nonfiction_Book&hash=item3a80601afa#ht_3433wt_1206



--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <***@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> i went on the Sal Gallina site hoping there was a PDF download of the book, but there was only a photo of it. Does this book only apply to the WX7 WIND SYNTH, or is it a universal FM manual ??
>
> Cheers.
>
> Paul
>
>
> --- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Forró <dan.for@> wrote:
> >
> > I was wrong, today not so much coffee, too hot weather...
> >
> > The book "Expressive FM Applications" was written by Sal Gallina, see
> > here:
> >
> > http://www.patchmanmusic.com/SalGallina.html
> >
> > I got it in 1988 when I bought WX7 Wind Controller...
> >
> > Daniel Forro
> >
> > On 9 Aug, 2013, at 4:58 PM, Daniel Forró wrote:
> >
> > > I also have book from Steve DeFuria - for WX7 Wind Controller, with
> > > some patch lists for DX7 and TX81z. Recently I haven't enough time to
> > > scan it.
> > >
> >
>

[Daniel Forró]

Contents of Gallina's book (total number of pages 104):

WX7 Setup - 2 pages
MIDI Setup - 1 page
TX81z voices - explanation, patch sheet, master setup (TX81z with
DX72, RX5, SPX90, REV7, DI10M II, MV802) for 16 voices - 32 pages
TX81z voices - patch sheets for 16 voices - 8 pages
TX81z performances - patch sheet, master setup for 3 performances - 3
pages
DX7 II voices - explanation, patch sheet, master setup for 16 voices -
32 pages
DX7 II voices - patch sheets for 16 voices - 8 pages
User programming table - empty tables as template for user notes (not
quite usable - only program Nr., title, type, fields for 11 parameters
and their values, field for remark) - 3 pages
TX81z Performance Memo Chart - empty tables - 3 pages
TX81z Voice Data List - empty tables - 2 pages

There was also accompanying cassette with audio demo of selected
voices and performances, and with audio data dump of TX81z 32 voices
and 3 performances. I tried to send it to my TX81z after 24 years, and
after more attempts I could get there most of the voices and
performances, what was not successful due errors I programmed manually
from patch sheets.
I'm planning to program manually also DX7 II D voices.

So it's mainly for WX7, and author also supposed using of distortion
effect stomp box, multi effect processor and reverb unit to get the
best sound. Instrument itself is not enough - FM synthesizers have no
effect processing inside.

It's possible to use breath controller with small modification of
sound data (not wind controller) and play the sounds on the keyboard.

Daniel Forro

On 10 Aug, 2013, at 4:20 AM, Paul wrote:

> Hi,
>
> i went on the Sal Gallina site hoping there was a PDF download of
> the book, but there was only a photo of it. Does this book only
> apply to the WX7 WIND SYNTH, or is it a universal FM manual ??
>
> Cheers.
>
> Paul

[Paul]

Thanks a lot Daniel,

Mmmm, in that case i think the other available books are far more comprehensive and suited towards the DX7 for study purposes.

Paul


--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Forró <***@...> wrote:
>
> Contents of Gallina's book (total number of pages 104):
>
> WX7 Setup - 2 pages
> MIDI Setup - 1 page
> TX81z voices - explanation, patch sheet, master setup (TX81z with
> DX72, RX5, SPX90, REV7, DI10M II, MV802) for 16 voices - 32 pages
> TX81z voices - patch sheets for 16 voices - 8 pages
> TX81z performances - patch sheet, master setup for 3 performances - 3
> pages
> DX7 II voices - explanation, patch sheet, master setup for 16 voices -
> 32 pages
> DX7 II voices - patch sheets for 16 voices - 8 pages
> User programming table - empty tables as template for user notes (not
> quite usable - only program Nr., title, type, fields for 11 parameters
> and their values, field for remark) - 3 pages
> TX81z Performance Memo Chart - empty tables - 3 pages
> TX81z Voice Data List - empty tables - 2 pages
>
> There was also accompanying cassette with audio demo of selected
> voices and performances, and with audio data dump of TX81z 32 voices
> and 3 performances. I tried to send it to my TX81z after 24 years, and
> after more attempts I could get there most of the voices and
> performances, what was not successful due errors I programmed manually
> from patch sheets.
> I'm planning to program manually also DX7 II D voices.
>
> So it's mainly for WX7, and author also supposed using of distortion
> effect stomp box, multi effect processor and reverb unit to get the
> best sound. Instrument itself is not enough - FM synthesizers have no
> effect processing inside.
>
> It's possible to use breath controller with small modification of
> sound data (not wind controller) and play the sounds on the keyboard.
>
> Daniel Forro
>
> On 10 Aug, 2013, at 4:20 AM, Paul wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > i went on the Sal Gallina site hoping there was a PDF download of
> > the book, but there was only a photo of it. Does this book only
> > apply to the WX7 WIND SYNTH, or is it a universal FM manual ??
> >
> > Cheers.
> >
> > Paul
>

[Paul]

Steve DeFuria is FANTASTIC !!

i watched some of his videos on You Tube. He is a great tutor, author and demonstator based on the writings and footage i have seen of him.

i believe that often when manuals have originally been written in Japanese, there is often difficulty in understanding these writings because of inaccurate translations !! But obviously with Steve DeFuria's books this is not an issue.



--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Richard Gelderblom <***@...> wrote:
>
> I have a book here called 'Power Play DX!' from Steve DeFuria.
> 'Keyboard, Pitch Bend & Control Techniques for the Yamaha DX7 II'
>
> It has voices and performances as well (hardcopy, no sysex...)
>
> If anyone's interested I can try to make a PDF out of it ?
>
> rg,rg
>
>
> On 9 August 2013 07:56, Daniel Forró <***@...> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > Massey's book is good, I like it, too.
> >
> > I had one book in German language, "Das komplette DX7 Handbuch" (The
> > Complete DX7 Handbook) written by excellent programmer Peter Gorges.
> >
> > Then there's the very first DX7 book from Yasuhiko Fukuda book -
> > Yamaha DX7 Digital Synthesizer, published by Rittor Music in 1984 in
> > Japanese, and in English by AMSCO in 1985.
> >
> > Then there's that highly theoretical Chowning + Bristow's "FM Theory &
> > Applications", explaining Bessel's functions and other math behind FM.
> >
> > Hal Leonard published in 1986 "Yamaha DX7 Easy - a complete guide to
> > the DX synthesizer", and in 1987 "Yamaha DX7 II D/ II FD - a complete
> > guide to the DX synthesizer".
> >
> > I have all of them including Massey book for DX7 II (and that one for
> > DX7 as PDF).
> >
> > <envy mode ON>
> >
> > Now Paul has something new and until now not known.
> >
> > <envy mode OFF>
> >
> > And still there must be somewhere those series of Supplemental Books
> > by Yamaha...
> >
> > But don't expect it has big sense to try to make orchestral
> > instruments on DX7. This is really not the best field for FM
> > synthesis, with the exception of tuned percussion, bells and some
> > plucked instruments. For such task sample based instruments or
> > physical modeling is better.
> > Strong point for DX are electronic colors, inharmonic sounds,
> > clangorous sounds, additive harmonic and inharmonic spectra, organ
> > sounds...
> >
> > Daniel Forro
> >
> > On 9 Aug, 2013, at 4:58 AM, eboatsmfine wrote:
> >
> > > Hello, I have the book "The Complete DX7" by Howard Massey which is
> > > great, but am wondering if there are any other good books on
> > > programming the DX7 or other FM synths?
> > >
> > > I like the "Recipes" in Massey's book and wonder if more of this
> > > type of material can be found elsewhere? Would be interesting to
> > > have recipes for creating different orchestral instruments for
> > > example.
> >
> >
> >
>

[Daniel Forró]

According to this page:

http://bobbyblues.recup.ch/yamaha_dx7/dx7_soundbanks.html

the books from Alexander Publishing I have mentioned in my previous
message are these:


"THE ORIGINAL DX7 PATCH FAKE BOOK" (VOL.1-3)
A total of 5 different books published by Alexander Publishing and
which gather each 32 new original patches to program. I'm still
searching for Volume 4 "Record Date" (by Jeff Fair) and Volume 5
"Nuclear Be-Bop" (by Cosmo Watts). Any informations or - best of all -
a sysex version of it are welcome!
"The Original DX7 Patch Fake Book" Volume One: Top 40 (Lorenz
Rychner & Scott Frankfurt) Patchlist Image
"The Original DX7 Patch Fake Book" Volume Two: From The Movies
(Clark Spangler) Patchlist Image
"The Original DX7 Patch Fake Book" Volume Three: More From The
Movies (Larry Steelman) Patchlist Image


Daniel Forro


On 9 Aug, 2013, at 4:58 AM, eboatsmfine wrote:

> Hello, I have the book "The Complete DX7" by Howard Massey which is
> great, but am wondering if there are any other good books on
> programming the DX7 or other FM synths?
>
> I like the "Recipes" in Massey's book and wonder if more of this
> type of material can be found elsewhere? Would be interesting to
> have recipes for creating different orchestral instruments for
> example.

[Daniel Forró]

Chowning and Massey books are here:

http://www.spoogeworld.com/music/instruments/yamaha/main.php

with some other manuals...

Daniel Forro

On 9 Aug, 2013, at 4:58 AM, eboatsmfine wrote:

> Hello, I have the book "The Complete DX7" by Howard Massey which is
> great, but am wondering if there are any other good books on
> programming the DX7 or other FM synths?
>
> I like the "Recipes" in Massey's book and wonder if more of this
> type of material can be found elsewhere? Would be interesting to
> have recipes for creating different orchestral instruments for
> example.

[eboatsmfine]

Thanks for the info! What I like about the Massey book is the step by step programming instruction along with some theory about what is happening. It gives me ideas about different experiments to try. Not sure if there's any other book that gets into this much DX7 programming detail? I browsed the Chowning book but it seems to be all theory/math and no pragmatic programming steps?


--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Forró <***@...> wrote:
>
> Chowning and Massey books are here:
>
> http://www.spoogeworld.com/music/instruments/yamaha/main.php
>
> with some other manuals...
>
> Daniel Forro
>
> On 9 Aug, 2013, at 4:58 AM, eboatsmfine wrote:
>
> > Hello, I have the book "The Complete DX7" by Howard Massey which is
> > great, but am wondering if there are any other good books on
> > programming the DX7 or other FM synths?
> >
> > I like the "Recipes" in Massey's book and wonder if more of this
> > type of material can be found elsewhere? Would be interesting to
> > have recipes for creating different orchestral instruments for
> > example.
>

[Paul]

Thanks for the 'links' !!

i was not at all aware that Howard Massey had written a book for BOTH DX7's !! Excellent.



--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, "eboatsmfine" <***@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the info! What I like about the Massey book is the step by step programming instruction along with some theory about what is happening. It gives me ideas about different experiments to try. Not sure if there's any other book that gets into this much DX7 programming detail? I browsed the Chowning book but it seems to be all theory/math and no pragmatic programming steps?
>
>
> --- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Forró <dan.for@> wrote:
> >
> > Chowning and Massey books are here:
> >
> > http://www.spoogeworld.com/music/instruments/yamaha/main.php
> >
> > with some other manuals...
> >
> > Daniel Forro
> >
> > On 9 Aug, 2013, at 4:58 AM, eboatsmfine wrote:
> >
> > > Hello, I have the book "The Complete DX7" by Howard Massey which is
> > > great, but am wondering if there are any other good books on
> > > programming the DX7 or other FM synths?
> > >
> > > I like the "Recipes" in Massey's book and wonder if more of this
> > > type of material can be found elsewhere? Would be interesting to
> > > have recipes for creating different orchestral instruments for
> > > example.
> >
>

[rawl47]

Don't forget this great resource:

http://yates.ca/dx7/

Mr. Yates has a fair number of these titles already in electronic format for your reading pleasure.

Plus some other useful technical information. Mr. Yates has had his repository around for quite a few years...

Cheers,
Rawl

--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Forró <***@...> wrote:
>
> Chowning and Massey books are here:
>
> http://www.spoogeworld.com/music/instruments/yamaha/main.php
>
> with some other manuals...
>
> Daniel Forro
>
> On 9 Aug, 2013, at 4:58 AM, eboatsmfine wrote:
>
> > Hello, I have the book "The Complete DX7" by Howard Massey which is
> > great, but am wondering if there are any other good books on
> > programming the DX7 or other FM synths?
> >
> > I like the "Recipes" in Massey's book and wonder if more of this
> > type of material can be found elsewhere? Would be interesting to
> > have recipes for creating different orchestral instruments for
> > example.
>

[Paul]

WOW, lots of useful books on the Mr Yates site !! i just downloaded a few. Look forward to reading them. THANKS !!



--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, "rawl47" <***@...> wrote:
>
> Don't forget this great resource:
>
> http://yates.ca/dx7/
>
> Mr. Yates has a fair number of these titles already in electronic format for your reading pleasure.
>
> Plus some other useful technical information. Mr. Yates has had his repository around for quite a few years...
>
> Cheers,
> Rawl
>
> --- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Forró <dan.for@> wrote:
> >
> > Chowning and Massey books are here:
> >
> > http://www.spoogeworld.com/music/instruments/yamaha/main.php
> >
> > with some other manuals...
> >
> > Daniel Forro
> >
> > On 9 Aug, 2013, at 4:58 AM, eboatsmfine wrote:
> >
> > > Hello, I have the book "The Complete DX7" by Howard Massey which is
> > > great, but am wondering if there are any other good books on
> > > programming the DX7 or other FM synths?
> > >
> > > I like the "Recipes" in Massey's book and wonder if more of this
> > > type of material can be found elsewhere? Would be interesting to
> > > have recipes for creating different orchestral instruments for
> > > example.
> >
>

[Allan Yates]

You're welcome. My contribution was the scan of The Complete DX7II. Everything else I found on other people's sites. I collected all the info while repairing a friends unit. This is just my way of giving back.


Allan.

________________________________
From: ***@yahoogroups.com [***@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Paul [***@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 5:07 PM
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [YamahaDX] Re: Other DX7 books?



WOW, lots of useful books on the Mr Yates site !! i just downloaded a few. Look forward to reading them. THANKS !!

--- In ***@yahoogroups.com<mailto:YamahaDX%40yahoogroups.com>, "rawl47" <***@...> wrote:
>
> Don't forget this great resource:
>
> http://yates.ca/dx7/
>
> Mr. Yates has a fair number of these titles already in electronic format for your reading pleasure.
>
> Plus some other useful technical information. Mr. Yates has had his repository around for quite a few years...
>
> Cheers,
> Rawl

[Paul]

i was bidding on ebay on the Howard Massey book last week but got outbidded at the last minute (which was really annoying !!). So it is great to at least have a PDF copy of it.

If there has been so much written about the DX7 (as seems the case here), then why did everyone complain in the 1980's that it was too difficult to understand and operate ??



--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Allan Yates <***@...> wrote:
>
> You're welcome. My contribution was the scan of The Complete DX7II. Everything else I found on other people's sites. I collected all the info while repairing a friends unit. This is just my way of giving back.
>
>
> Allan.
>
> ________________________________
> From: ***@yahoogroups.com [***@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Paul [***@...]
> Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 5:07 PM
> To: ***@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [YamahaDX] Re: Other DX7 books?
>
>
>
> WOW, lots of useful books on the Mr Yates site !! i just downloaded a few. Look forward to reading them. THANKS !!
>
> --- In ***@yahoogroups.com<mailto:YamahaDX%40yahoogroups.com>, "rawl47" <rawl747@> wrote:
> >
> > Don't forget this great resource:
> >
> > http://yates.ca/dx7/
> >
> > Mr. Yates has a fair number of these titles already in electronic format for your reading pleasure.
> >
> > Plus some other useful technical information. Mr. Yates has had his repository around for quite a few years...
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Rawl
>

[Jason Adkins]

Hi Paul,

I think people complained because it didn't have knobs and sliders and
it had operators and algorithm's and to be fair the original DX7 is a
pig to program which is why most musicians who could afford one just
used the presets and then bought sounds on rom carts.
The ultra rare programmer for the DX7 is silly money!
Talking of knobs and sliders,checkout the Korg 707 it has 4 sliders,2
assignable to eg, only 4op but dirt cheap on craigslist/ebay and they
are better than most people think.

J


On 10 Aug 2013, at 00:53, Paul wrote:

> i was bidding on ebay on the Howard Massey book last week but got
> outbidded at the last minute (which was really annoying !!). So it
> is great to at least have a PDF copy of it.
>
> If there has been so much written about the DX7 (as seems the case
> here), then why did everyone complain in the 1980's that it was too
> difficult to understand and operate ??
>
> --- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Allan Yates <***@...> wrote:
> >
> > You're welcome. My contribution was the scan of The Complete
> DX7II. Everything else I found on other people's sites. I collected
> all the info while repairing a friends unit. This is just my way of
> giving back.
> >
> >
> > Allan.
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: ***@yahoogroups.com [***@yahoogroups.com] on
> behalf of Paul [***@...]
> > Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 5:07 PM
> > To: ***@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [YamahaDX] Re: Other DX7 books?
> >
> >
> >
> > WOW, lots of useful books on the Mr Yates site !! i just
> downloaded a few. Look forward to reading them. THANKS !!
> >
> > --- In ***@yahoogroups.com<mailto:YamahaDX
> %40yahoogroups.com>, "rawl47" <rawl747@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Don't forget this great resource:
> > >
> > > http://yates.ca/dx7/
> > >
> > > Mr. Yates has a fair number of these titles already in
> electronic format for your reading pleasure.
> > >
> > > Plus some other useful technical information. Mr. Yates has had
> his repository around for quite a few years...
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Rawl
> >
>
>

[Daniel Forró]

Yes, that was the main problem - all that unusual and new concept of
algorithm synthesis combining FM (in fact PM) with additive principle.
Not at all intuitive as subtractive synths of those times, and without
deeper study editing gives unpredictable results. It's difficult to
make some concrete sound, lot of sounds were created by editing of
factory sounds or by chance... That's the reason why there's so much
sounds, but only some of them are really good.
Much later new sounds came, done by professional programmers, and
incomparably better than original Yamaha factory sets.
Small display and way of control was not so big problem, one could get
used to it quickly, and soon there were software editors on the market.

I had that blue Jellinghaus programmer, but sold it - it hadn't so big
sense to use analog knobs for DX control because real time control
during performance is not possible on this instrument - changes are
not done on the sustained sound, it's necessary to retrigger the key,
and the most important parameters - algorithm select, coarse and fine
frequency - are not continuous but stepped so there are jumps when
values are changed. But it could help with programming.

Generally I like Korg products, but 707 (and DS8) is not so good,
there's no access to FM parameters, GUI pretends it's subtractive
synth which it is not. One must be also very careful with those round
switches - they are plastic and easily break, repair is not possible.
Any small 4 OP DX/TX or V50 is much better.

Daniel Forro


On 10 Aug, 2013, at 5:34 PM, Jason Adkins wrote:

>
>
> Hi Paul,
>
> I think people complained because it didn't have knobs and sliders
> and it had operators and algorithm's and to be fair the original DX7
> is a pig to program which is why most musicians who could afford one
> just used the presets and then bought sounds on rom carts.
> The ultra rare programmer for the DX7 is silly money!
> Talking of knobs and sliders,checkout the Korg 707 it has 4 sliders,
> 2 assignable to eg, only 4op but dirt cheap on craigslist/ebay and
> they are better than most people think.
>
> J

[Jason Adkins]

I never said they were brilliant but they are cheap and why is it I
can't remove one of your emails from my ipod touch?
Hmmm

On 10 Aug 2013, at 10:17, Daniel Forró wrote:

>
> Yes, that was the main problem - all that unusual and new concept of
> algorithm synthesis combining FM (in fact PM) with additive
> principle. Not at all intuitive as subtractive synths of those
> times, and without deeper study editing gives unpredictable
> results. It's difficult to make some concrete sound, lot of sounds
> were created by editing of factory sounds or by chance... That's the
> reason why there's so much sounds, but only some of them are really
> good.
> Much later new sounds came, done by professional programmers, and
> incomparably better than original Yamaha factory sets.
> Small display and way of control was not so big problem, one could
> get used to it quickly, and soon there were software editors on the
> market.
>
> I had that blue Jellinghaus programmer, but sold it - it hadn't so
> big sense to use analog knobs for DX control because real time
> control during performance is not possible on this instrument -
> changes are not done on the sustained sound, it's necessary to
> retrigger the key, and the most important parameters - algorithm
> select, coarse and fine frequency - are not continuous but stepped
> so there are jumps when values are changed. But it could help with
> programming.
>
> Generally I like Korg products, but 707 (and DS8) is not so good,
> there's no access to FM parameters, GUI pretends it's subtractive
> synth which it is not. One must be also very careful with those
> round switches - they are plastic and easily break, repair is not
> possible. Any small 4 OP DX/TX or V50 is much better.
>
> Daniel Forro
>
>
> On 10 Aug, 2013, at 5:34 PM, Jason Adkins wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Hi Paul,
>>
>> I think people complained because it didn't have knobs and sliders
>> and it had operators and algorithm's and to be fair the original
>> DX7 is a pig to program which is why most musicians who could
>> afford one just used the presets and then bought sounds on rom carts.
>> The ultra rare programmer for the DX7 is silly money!
>> Talking of knobs and sliders,checkout the Korg 707 it has 4 sliders,
>> 2 assignable to eg, only 4op but dirt cheap on craigslist/ebay and
>> they are better than most people think.
>>
>> J
>
>
>

[Paul]

Dan,

When you say 'PM' do you mean 'Phase Modulation' ??

What i don't understand is how can Yamaha INVENT the machine and install sounds which are 'OK' sounding, and then outside programers (later down the line) came up with BETTER sounds ?? Surely the INVENTOR (Yamaha) would have the best knowledge over the instrument ??

Also, it is considered by many people that the Japanese are highly intellegent compared to us here in the West. Did the musicians of Japan struggle with the programming aspects of the DX7 in the same way ?? Or did we (here in the West) have difficulties due to the difference in INTELLECT between ourselves and Japan ??

Paul



--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Forró <***@...> wrote:
>
> Yes, that was the main problem - all that unusual and new concept of
> algorithm synthesis combining FM (in fact PM) with additive principle.
> Not at all intuitive as subtractive synths of those times, and without
> deeper study editing gives unpredictable results. It's difficult to
> make some concrete sound, lot of sounds were created by editing of
> factory sounds or by chance... That's the reason why there's so much
> sounds, but only some of them are really good.
> Much later new sounds came, done by professional programmers, and
> incomparably better than original Yamaha factory sets.
> Small display and way of control was not so big problem, one could get
> used to it quickly, and soon there were software editors on the market.
>
> I had that blue Jellinghaus programmer, but sold it - it hadn't so big
> sense to use analog knobs for DX control because real time control
> during performance is not possible on this instrument - changes are
> not done on the sustained sound, it's necessary to retrigger the key,
> and the most important parameters - algorithm select, coarse and fine
> frequency - are not continuous but stepped so there are jumps when
> values are changed. But it could help with programming.
>
> Generally I like Korg products, but 707 (and DS8) is not so good,
> there's no access to FM parameters, GUI pretends it's subtractive
> synth which it is not. One must be also very careful with those round
> switches - they are plastic and easily break, repair is not possible.
> Any small 4 OP DX/TX or V50 is much better.
>
> Daniel Forro
>
>
> On 10 Aug, 2013, at 5:34 PM, Jason Adkins wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Hi Paul,
> >
> > I think people complained because it didn't have knobs and sliders
> > and it had operators and algorithm's and to be fair the original DX7
> > is a pig to program which is why most musicians who could afford one
> > just used the presets and then bought sounds on rom carts.
> > The ultra rare programmer for the DX7 is silly money!
> > Talking of knobs and sliders,checkout the Korg 707 it has 4 sliders,
> > 2 assignable to eg, only 4op but dirt cheap on craigslist/ebay and
> > they are better than most people think.
> >
> > J
>

[Yvonne R]

The Japanese people I have met think differently to us I believe .. I don't
believe is "intellect" one way or the other .. just different way of
thinking ..

I have worked with many Japanese in the electronics industry ... Sharp,
Yamaha, Denon, JVC and many more .. and they exhibit a "can do " attitude
.. like none I have seen in the west ... they have a sense of humor but
when they take something seriously they will not stop till they have it
understood ..

If you want to get a (very) small feeling of the thought patterns ... take
up Karate .. it is a real eye opener not just for the physical activity but
for the mental attitude and beliefs that are behind it. Its not called a
(martial) Art for nothing .. it is artistic, as is their writing,
buildings, and thoughts ..


Yvonne

At 15:23 10/08/13 +0000, you wrote:
>Also, it is considered by many people that the Japanese are highly
>intellegent compared to us here in the West. Did the musicians of Japan
>struggle with the programming aspects of the DX7 in the same way ?? Or
>did we (here in the West) have difficulties due to the difference in
>INTELLECT between ourselves and Japan ??

[Daniel Forró]

On 11 Aug, 2013, at 12:23 AM, Paul wrote:

> Dan,
>
> When you say 'PM' do you mean 'Phase Modulation' ??
>

Yes.

> What i don't understand is how can Yamaha INVENT the machine and
> install sounds which are 'OK' sounding, and then outside programers
> (later down the line) came up with BETTER sounds ?? Surely the
> INVENTOR (Yamaha) would have the best knowledge over the instrument ??

Inventor of FM synthesis is John Chowning, he was professor at
Stanford and later sold patent to Yamaha. (BTW, at Stanford they did
also research in physical modeling, Sondius technology - also licensed
by Yamaha - is their invention.)

Yamaha engineers for sure had no idea how to program this instrument.
They hired musicians and sound designers, like David Bristow or later
many others. They did factory sounds and sounds on ROM cartridges. But
as there was no so much time in the beginning, everything was done in
hurry and not all possibilities offered by DX were used. Independent
programmers later did sound design better and found lot of interesting
things. They were not in hurry, had also software editors, and access
to much bigger portfolio of free sounds to analyze, learn from and
improve, develop, brush up.

> Also, it is considered by many people that the Japanese are highly
> intellegent compared to us here in the West. Did the musicians of
> Japan struggle with the programming aspects of the DX7 in the same
> way ?? Or did we (here in the West) have difficulties due to the
> difference in INTELLECT between ourselves and Japan ??
>
> Paul

This is myth. Japanese education system is very bad, so when you meet
intelligent person, it's a miracle they could survive schools. They
also lose lot of time, energy and brain capacity by studying their
writing system, and during many years of study they can learn only
small amount (about 2000-3000 signs).
I don't see any difference in IQ, it's probably same like in the West.
Clever people, not so clever people, some very clever, some stupid -
as everywhere. Fortunately I had good luck, and met mainly those
clever, and my feeling is there's a lot of them. There are more types
of intelligence, so when talking about we must specify which one we
discuss.
Asian people are very good in copying, direct experience and learning
from teacher, and memorizing mechanically. Generally they are not so
creative, and for example the word "improvisation" is totally far from
their way of thinking. Improvisation in music, or in life... Because
they don't need to improvise, everything works here excellently in
public life, services, offices, transport system, medical care... They
are spoiled from it. When their train is 30 seconds late, they start
to panic :-) On the other side nature here is very wild and lot of
natural disasters learned them during centuries to be brave and fight
with the nature, and respect it. I admire this feature - when they
lose everything, they can start again from zero.
Another interesting thing is they are not so good in DIY and repairs -
when they need to change light at home, or similar small maintenance
or repair, they call a specialist. Funny.
Another difference is they are used to cooperate with other, with
schoolmates, group, colleagues... They are educated since the early
age to this, and the discipline, harmony, politeness, respect to other
people, things... are part of their mentality. We Westerners are much
more undisciplined, independent, individualistic, egoistic, rough...

Daniel Forro

[Paul]

Hi,

When i turned pro about 25 years ago, i remember meeting a few demonstrators and tutors who worked in Music Stores and Music Learning Centres. Yamaha would send these guys on training weekends regularly to show them how to use the likes of the DX7. This was because musicians/customers were going into music shops with a view to purchasing a DX7 and none of the staff could demonstrate it due to their lack of knowledge !!

Paul


>
> Yamaha engineers for sure had no idea how to program this instrument.
> They hired musicians and sound designers, like David Bristow or later
> many others. They did factory sounds and sounds on ROM cartridges. But
> as there was no so much time in the beginning, everything was done in
> hurry and not all possibilities offered by DX were used. Independent
> programmers later did sound design better and found lot of interesting
> things. They were not in hurry, had also software editors, and access
> to much bigger portfolio of free sounds to analyze, learn from and
> improve, develop, brush up.
>

[Daniel Forró]

I think Yamaha was good in this service for customers, I worked for
them as Product Specialist, demonstrator and clinician between 1992
and 2002. Regular visits at shops to show new products and educating
the selling staff were important part of this job. In between lot of
other work - studying about new products, programming sounds and
demonstrating songs, writing tests and reviews for music magazines,
translating promotion materials and Owner's manuals, demonstrations
and answering questions at music fairs (including Frankfurt Musik
Messe, plus lot of others in more countries)...

I don't know if Yamaha still continues such service. And truth is I
had rarely seen such service from other manufacturers. But maybe times
are changing, there's internet as an important source of information,
and also economical crisis, so manufacturers must save money.

Daniel Forro


On 11 Aug, 2013, at 1:21 AM, Paul wrote:

> Hi,
>
> When i turned pro about 25 years ago, i remember meeting a few
> demonstrators and tutors who worked in Music Stores and Music
> Learning Centres. Yamaha would send these guys on training weekends
> regularly to show them how to use the likes of the DX7. This was
> because musicians/customers were going into music shops with a view
> to purchasing a DX7 and none of the staff could demonstrate it due
> to their lack of knowledge !!
>
> Paul

[Paul]

Hi,

Thats really amazing, i wish i had had that opportunity and training. You must be very knowledgable indeed !! i would have had private tuition with you had you have lived here in the UK !! It must be a great feeling to understand so much about synthesis and programing etc.

Paul



--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Forró <***@...> wrote:
>
> I think Yamaha was good in this service for customers, I worked for
> them as Product Specialist, demonstrator and clinician between 1992
> and 2002. Regular visits at shops to show new products and educating
> the selling staff were important part of this job. In between lot of
> other work - studying about new products, programming sounds and
> demonstrating songs, writing tests and reviews for music magazines,
> translating promotion materials and Owner's manuals, demonstrations
> and answering questions at music fairs (including Frankfurt Musik
> Messe, plus lot of others in more countries)...
>

[Mike Ward]

Daniel, thanks for being in this forum. You have provided excellent advice and information.




________________________________
From: Daniel Forró <***@tiscali.cz>
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2013 4:17 AM
Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] Re: Other DX7 books?



 
Yes, that was the main problem - all that unusual and new concept of algorithm synthesis combining FM (in fact PM) with additive principle. Not at all intuitive as subtractive synths of those times, and without deeper study editing gives unpredictable results.  It's difficult to make some concrete sound, lot of sounds were created by editing of factory sounds or by chance... That's the reason why there's so much sounds, but only some of them are really good. 
Much later new sounds came, done by professional programmers, and incomparably better than original Yamaha factory sets.
Small display and way of control was not so big problem, one could get used to it quickly, and soon there were software editors on the market.

I had that blue Jellinghaus programmer, but sold it - it hadn't so big sense to use analog knobs for DX control because real time control during performance is not possible on this instrument - changes are not done on the sustained sound, it's necessary to retrigger the key, and the most important parameters - algorithm select, coarse and fine frequency - are not continuous but stepped so there are jumps when values are changed.  But it could help with programming.

Generally I like Korg products, but 707 (and DS8) is not so good, there's no access to FM parameters, GUI pretends it's subtractive synth which it is not. One must be also very careful with those round switches - they are plastic and easily break, repair is not possible. Any small 4 OP DX/TX or V50 is much better.

Daniel Forro


On 10 Aug, 2013, at 5:34 PM, Jason Adkins wrote:


>
>Hi Paul,
>
>
>I think people complained because it didn't have knobs and sliders and it had operators and algorithm's and to be fair the original DX7 is a pig to program which is why most musicians who could afford one just used the presets and then bought sounds on rom carts.
>The ultra rare programmer for the DX7 is silly money!
>Talking of knobs and sliders,checkout the Korg 707 it has 4 sliders,2 assignable to eg, only 4op but dirt cheap on craigslist/ebay and they are better than most people think.
>
>
>J

[jammie]

yes the ds8 and the 707 are a little better hands on as those sliders do make it a real time modulation

the reason why the dx7 series are a pig to program is its not just the algo,s its you need to work out math

and additive synthesis which the dx7 has 6 additive osc so you can make some b3 patches

but because of fm you can work out with 3 ops all b3 patches as you can work out the frequencie spectrum but need lots of math to work out and synth players just like to switch on and play and why in the 80,s and 90,s there were programmers that were hired for bands or they brought patches

----- Original Message -----
From: Jason Adkins
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2013 9:34 AM
Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] Re: Other DX7 books?



Hi Paul,



I think people complained because it didn't have knobs and sliders and it had operators and algorithm's and to be fair the original DX7 is a pig to program which is why most musicians who could afford one just used the presets and then bought sounds on rom carts.
The ultra rare programmer for the DX7 is silly money!
Talking of knobs and sliders,checkout the Korg 707 it has 4 sliders,2 assignable to eg, only 4op but dirt cheap on craigslist/ebay and they are better than most people think.


J




On 10 Aug 2013, at 00:53, Paul wrote:



i was bidding on ebay on the Howard Massey book last week but got outbidded at the last minute (which was really annoying !!). So it is great to at least have a PDF copy of it.

If there has been so much written about the DX7 (as seems the case here), then why did everyone complain in the 1980's that it was too difficult to understand and operate ??

--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Allan Yates <***@...> wrote:
>
> You're welcome. My contribution was the scan of The Complete DX7II. Everything else I found on other people's sites. I collected all the info while repairing a friends unit. This is just my way of giving back.
>
>
> Allan.
>
> ________________________________
> From: ***@yahoogroups.com [***@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Paul [***@...]
> Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 5:07 PM
> To: ***@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [YamahaDX] Re: Other DX7 books?
>
>
>
> WOW, lots of useful books on the Mr Yates site !! i just downloaded a few. Look forward to reading them. THANKS !!
>
> --- In ***@yahoogroups.com<mailto:YamahaDX%40yahoogroups.com>, "rawl47" <rawl747@> wrote:
> >
> > Don't forget this great resource:
> >
> > http://yates.ca/dx7/
> >
> > Mr. Yates has a fair number of these titles already in electronic format for your reading pleasure.
> >
> > Plus some other useful technical information. Mr. Yates has had his repository around for quite a few years...
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Rawl
>







No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3211/6565 - Release Date: 08/09/13

[mekon_ca]

Someone has made BCR2000 to be able to program DX7. So just to inform you.
files are here in this group
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/bc2000

and this is direct link to files
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/bc2000/files/Presets/DX7%20Preset/

[Paul]

Thanks Jamie,

So you will have had DX7 programers who were not great musicians (ie 'players') but were excellent TECHNICIANS. And musicians who were great players but lacked the skills to be able to program the DX7.

i am totally stck on all the MATHS but am going to purchase some books later in the year to help get me started.

Paul



--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, "jammie" <***@...> wrote:
>
> yes the ds8 and the 707 are a little better hands on as those sliders do make it a real time modulation
>
> the reason why the dx7 series are a pig to program is its not just the algo,s its you need to work out math
>
> and additive synthesis which the dx7 has 6 additive osc so you can make some b3 patches
>
> but because of fm you can work out with 3 ops all b3 patches as you can work out the frequencie spectrum but need lots of math to work out and synth players just like to switch on and play and why in the 80,s and 90,s there were programmers that were hired for bands or they brought patches
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jason Adkins
> To: ***@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2013 9:34 AM
> Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] Re: Other DX7 books?
>
>
>
> Hi Paul,
>
>
>
> I think people complained because it didn't have knobs and sliders and it had operators and algorithm's and to be fair the original DX7 is a pig to program which is why most musicians who could afford one just used the presets and then bought sounds on rom carts.
> The ultra rare programmer for the DX7 is silly money!
> Talking of knobs and sliders,checkout the Korg 707 it has 4 sliders,2 assignable to eg, only 4op but dirt cheap on craigslist/ebay and they are better than most people think.
>
>
> J
>
>
>
>
> On 10 Aug 2013, at 00:53, Paul wrote:
>
>
>
> i was bidding on ebay on the Howard Massey book last week but got outbidded at the last minute (which was really annoying !!). So it is great to at least have a PDF copy of it.
>
> If there has been so much written about the DX7 (as seems the case here), then why did everyone complain in the 1980's that it was too difficult to understand and operate ??
>
> --- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Allan Yates <allan@> wrote:
> >
> > You're welcome. My contribution was the scan of The Complete DX7II. Everything else I found on other people's sites. I collected all the info while repairing a friends unit. This is just my way of giving back.
> >
> >
> > Allan.
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: ***@yahoogroups.com [***@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Paul [paulseaman1@]
> > Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 5:07 PM
> > To: ***@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [YamahaDX] Re: Other DX7 books?
> >
> >
> >
> > WOW, lots of useful books on the Mr Yates site !! i just downloaded a few. Look forward to reading them. THANKS !!
> >
> > --- In ***@yahoogroups.com<mailto:YamahaDX%40yahoogroups.com>, "rawl47" <rawl747@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Don't forget this great resource:
> > >
> > > http://yates.ca/dx7/
> > >
> > > Mr. Yates has a fair number of these titles already in electronic format for your reading pleasure.
> > >
> > > Plus some other useful technical information. Mr. Yates has had his repository around for quite a few years...
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Rawl
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3211/6565 - Release Date: 08/09/13
>

[Yvonne R]

What he said ... and me .. but shorter ! .. LOL ..


At 14:24 10/08/13 +0000, you wrote:
>Thanks Jamie,
>
>So you will have had DX7 programers who were not great musicians (ie
>'players') but were excellent TECHNICIANS. And musicians who were great
>players but lacked the skills to be able to program the DX7.
>
>i am totally stck on all the MATHS but am going to purchase some books
>later in the year to help get me started.
>
>Paul
>
>
>
>--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, "jammie" <***@...> wrote:
> >
> > yes the ds8 and the 707 are a little better hands on as those sliders
> do make it a real time modulation
> >
> > the reason why the dx7 series are a pig to program is its not just the
> algo,s its you need to work out math
> >
> > and additive synthesis which the dx7 has 6 additive osc so you can make
> some b3 patches
> >
> > but because of fm you can work out with 3 ops all b3 patches as you can
> work out the frequencie spectrum but need lots of math to work out and
> synth players just like to switch on and play and why in the 80,s and
> 90,s there were programmers that were hired for bands or they brought patches
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Jason Adkins
> > To: ***@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2013 9:34 AM
> > Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] Re: Other DX7 books?
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Paul,
> >
> >
> >
> > I think people complained because it didn't have knobs and sliders
> and it had operators and algorithm's and to be fair the original DX7 is a
> pig to program which is why most musicians who could afford one just used
> the presets and then bought sounds on rom carts.
> > The ultra rare programmer for the DX7 is silly money!
> > Talking of knobs and sliders,checkout the Korg 707 it has 4 sliders,2
> assignable to eg, only 4op but dirt cheap on craigslist/ebay and they are
> better than most people think.
> >
> >
> > J
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 10 Aug 2013, at 00:53, Paul wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > i was bidding on ebay on the Howard Massey book last week but got
> outbidded at the last minute (which was really annoying !!). So it is
> great to at least have a PDF copy of it.
> >
> > If there has been so much written about the DX7 (as seems the case
> here), then why did everyone complain in the 1980's that it was too
> difficult to understand and operate ??
> >
> > --- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Allan Yates <allan@> wrote:
> > >
> > > You're welcome. My contribution was the scan of The Complete
> DX7II. Everything else I found on other people's sites. I collected all
> the info while repairing a friends unit. This is just my way of giving back.
> > >
> > >
> > > Allan.
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: ***@yahoogroups.com [***@yahoogroups.com] on
> behalf of Paul [paulseaman1@]
> > > Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 5:07 PM
> > > To: ***@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [YamahaDX] Re: Other DX7 books?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > WOW, lots of useful books on the Mr Yates site !! i just
> downloaded a few. Look forward to reading them. THANKS !!
> > >
> > > --- In
> ***@yahoogroups.com<mailto:YamahaDX%40yahoogroups.com>, "rawl47"
> <rawl747@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Don't forget this great resource:
> > > >
> > > > http://yates.ca/dx7/
> > > >
> > > > Mr. Yates has a fair number of these titles already in
> electronic format for your reading pleasure.
> > > >
> > > > Plus some other useful technical information. Mr. Yates has had
> his repository around for quite a few years...
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > Rawl
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3211/6565 - Release Date: 08/09/13
> >
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Paul]

Thanks Jason,

i understand now what you are saying.

i watched a few You Tube interviews with semi-famous musicians of the 1980's, and they said that throughout this period most of the 'pop' music records just used the PRESET sounds (or slight modifications of) because the average session musician found the synth too dificult to program. And as a result, you kept hearing all the SAME DX sounds on TV, films, and recordings !!

Paul


--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Jason Adkins <***@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Paul,
>
> I think people complained because it didn't have knobs and sliders and
> it had operators and algorithm's and to be fair the original DX7 is a
> pig to program which is why most musicians who could afford one just
> used the presets and then bought sounds on rom carts.
> The ultra rare programmer for the DX7 is silly money!
> Talking of knobs and sliders,checkout the Korg 707 it has 4 sliders,2
> assignable to eg, only 4op but dirt cheap on craigslist/ebay and they
> are better than most people think.
>
> J
>
>
> On 10 Aug 2013, at 00:53, Paul wrote:
>
> > i was bidding on ebay on the Howard Massey book last week but got
> > outbidded at the last minute (which was really annoying !!). So it
> > is great to at least have a PDF copy of it.
> >
> > If there has been so much written about the DX7 (as seems the case
> > here), then why did everyone complain in the 1980's that it was too
> > difficult to understand and operate ??
> >
> > --- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Allan Yates <allan@> wrote:
> > >
> > > You're welcome. My contribution was the scan of The Complete
> > DX7II. Everything else I found on other people's sites. I collected
> > all the info while repairing a friends unit. This is just my way of
> > giving back.
> > >
> > >
> > > Allan.
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: ***@yahoogroups.com [***@yahoogroups.com] on
> > behalf of Paul [paulseaman1@]
> > > Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 5:07 PM
> > > To: ***@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [YamahaDX] Re: Other DX7 books?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > WOW, lots of useful books on the Mr Yates site !! i just
> > downloaded a few. Look forward to reading them. THANKS !!
> > >
> > > --- In ***@yahoogroups.com<mailto:YamahaDX
> > %40yahoogroups.com>, "rawl47" <rawl747@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Don't forget this great resource:
> > > >
> > > > http://yates.ca/dx7/
> > > >
> > > > Mr. Yates has a fair number of these titles already in
> > electronic format for your reading pleasure.
> > > >
> > > > Plus some other useful technical information. Mr. Yates has had
> > his repository around for quite a few years...
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > Rawl
> > >
> >
> >
>

[Daniel Forró]

Exactly. Those times I had nice game - to guess the name, cartridge,
bank and number of the DX sound I've heard. Until now I still surprise
sometimes my wife when we hear the music in old Japanese anime by
telling her name of the DX sound :-)

Concerning the sound design creativity I'm afraid it was not only case
of DX7... much simpler synths and samplers were used only with factory
presets, and some of the very typical sounds became notoriously
overused. And boring. But new generation use them again without a
shame. What a shame.

Daniel Forro


On 10 Aug, 2013, at 11:15 PM, Paul wrote:

> Thanks Jason,
>
> i understand now what you are saying.
>
> i watched a few You Tube interviews with semi-famous musicians of
> the 1980's, and they said that throughout this period most of the
> 'pop' music records just used the PRESET sounds (or slight
> modifications of) because the average session musician found the
> synth too dificult to program. And as a result, you kept hearing
> all the SAME DX sounds on TV, films, and recordings !!
>
> Paul
>
>
> --- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Jason Adkins <***@...>
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Paul,
>>
>> I think people complained because it didn't have knobs and sliders
>> and
>> it had operators and algorithm's and to be fair the original DX7 is a
>> pig to program which is why most musicians who could afford one just
>> used the presets and then bought sounds on rom carts.
>> The ultra rare programmer for the DX7 is silly money!
>> Talking of knobs and sliders,checkout the Korg 707 it has 4 sliders,2
>> assignable to eg, only 4op but dirt cheap on craigslist/ebay and they
>> are better than most people think.
>>

[Paul]

Hi Dan,

Well i remember when i bought a Korg M1 i heard the factory sounds on almost everything from that point for a good couple of years !! And i dare say that Roland D-50 owners would say the same thing.

i may be very wrong here, but i would have thought that users of the likes of Korg Poly's or Roland Juno's would have deviated from the factory sounds (or hardly even used them at all) because of the physical (hands-on) layout of the instrument and relatively user-friendly approach to sound-creating ?? Or would you say (to a certain extent) most players found theese analogue EASY to program once they had gotten the basics understood ?? For instance, did you hear the SAME factory sounds with these analogue synths on records ??

Paul



--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Forró <***@...> wrote:
>
> Exactly. Those times I had nice game - to guess the name, cartridge,
> bank and number of the DX sound I've heard. Until now I still surprise
> sometimes my wife when we hear the music in old Japanese anime by
> telling her name of the DX sound :-)
>
> Concerning the sound design creativity I'm afraid it was not only case
> of DX7... much simpler synths and samplers were used only with factory
> presets, and some of the very typical sounds became notoriously
> overused. And boring. But new generation use them again without a
> shame. What a shame.
>
> Daniel Forro
>
>
> On 10 Aug, 2013, at 11:15 PM, Paul wrote:
>
> > Thanks Jason,
> >
> > i understand now what you are saying.
> >
> > i watched a few You Tube interviews with semi-famous musicians of
> > the 1980's, and they said that throughout this period most of the
> > 'pop' music records just used the PRESET sounds (or slight
> > modifications of) because the average session musician found the
> > synth too dificult to program. And as a result, you kept hearing
> > all the SAME DX sounds on TV, films, and recordings !!
> >
> > Paul
> >
> >
> > --- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Jason Adkins <jason_ralf808@>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Paul,
> >>
> >> I think people complained because it didn't have knobs and sliders
> >> and
> >> it had operators and algorithm's and to be fair the original DX7 is a
> >> pig to program which is why most musicians who could afford one just
> >> used the presets and then bought sounds on rom carts.
> >> The ultra rare programmer for the DX7 is silly money!
> >> Talking of knobs and sliders,checkout the Korg 707 it has 4 sliders,2
> >> assignable to eg, only 4op but dirt cheap on craigslist/ebay and they
> >> are better than most people think.
> >>
>

[Daniel Forró]

Yes, those two synths are good examples.

Those analog synths mostly don't have many parameters, and rather
limited sound possibilities, so it's quite easy to set them. On the
other side there's not possible to create so much totally different
sounds like on many modern digital instruments. Some typical features,
or used circuits also made sound uniform - lot of manufacturers used
CEM or SSM chips.

So answer is yes, even analog synths and their typical sounds (as a
part of factory set) are recognizable in records, and users used the
same basic sounds.

I had really huge collection of analog synths (as a part of my Museum
of EA instruments working between 1989 and 2003), and much more I
didn't owned, but could use them, program, repair, renovate... during
my 40 years of work with electronic instruments. I published more
books and hundreds of expert articles, reviews, tests, did thousands
of demonstrations, seminars, clinics...
But in the end I sold most of them because I was not satisfied with
their sound and possibilities. Like 3 Minimoogs, Prophet 5, Jupiter 8,
2 ARP2600, 2 Polymoog Synthesizers, almost complete ARP line, almost
complete Korg line, almost complete Yamaha line, few Hammond organ,
Vox Continental, also Hohner clavinets, Wurlitzer Pianos, Rhodes
pianos... Boring. Add everlasting problems, maintenance, repairs (and
some special chips or other components are not available nowadays...)
- I got tired from all this.

I still keep some which I couldn't sell, but don't use them at all.
Recently I do again cleaning after another 10 years, recapping,
repairs, and plan to use them more in combination with many other
digital gear I have, maybe this is the good way. For example I'd like
to use sometimes my CP80, CS80, 2x CS40m, CS15D, SK20, SY1, YC45D,
B30R... when talking about Yamaha gear, but I have more :-)

To me more exciting are instruments like SY99, EX5, VL1, DX7, DX7II,
TX816, TX416, TX802, FS1r, PSR9000 Pro, P500, TG77, TG500, TG33, RM50,
RX5, TX16W, MU128... to name just Yamaha. Virtual analog synths are
quite satisfying for me, still I regret I have sold my AN1x many years
ago... when there's a chance, I will purchase it again.

Daniel Forro


On 10 Aug, 2013, at 11:38 PM, Paul wrote:

> Hi Dan,
>
> Well i remember when i bought a Korg M1 i heard the factory sounds
> on almost everything from that point for a good couple of years !!
> And i dare say that Roland D-50 owners would say the same thing.
>
> i may be very wrong here, but i would have thought that users of the
> likes of Korg Poly's or Roland Juno's would have deviated from the
> factory sounds (or hardly even used them at all) because of the
> physical (hands-on) layout of the instrument and relatively user-
> friendly approach to sound-creating ?? Or would you say (to a
> certain extent) most players found theese analogue EASY to program
> once they had gotten the basics understood ?? For instance, did you
> hear the SAME factory sounds with these analogue synths on records ??
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> --- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Forró <***@...> wrote:
>>
>> Exactly. Those times I had nice game - to guess the name, cartridge,
>> bank and number of the DX sound I've heard. Until now I still
>> surprise
>> sometimes my wife when we hear the music in old Japanese anime by
>> telling her name of the DX sound :-)
>>
>> Concerning the sound design creativity I'm afraid it was not only
>> case
>> of DX7... much simpler synths and samplers were used only with
>> factory
>> presets, and some of the very typical sounds became notoriously
>> overused. And boring. But new generation use them again without a
>> shame. What a shame.
>>
>> Daniel Forro
>>
>>
>> On 10 Aug, 2013, at 11:15 PM, Paul wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Jason,
>>>
>>> i understand now what you are saying.
>>>
>>> i watched a few You Tube interviews with semi-famous musicians of
>>> the 1980's, and they said that throughout this period most of the
>>> 'pop' music records just used the PRESET sounds (or slight
>>> modifications of) because the average session musician found the
>>> synth too dificult to program. And as a result, you kept hearing
>>> all the SAME DX sounds on TV, films, and recordings !!
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>
>>> --- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Jason Adkins <jason_ralf808@>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Paul,
>>>>
>>>> I think people complained because it didn't have knobs and sliders
>>>> and
>>>> it had operators and algorithm's and to be fair the original DX7
>>>> is a
>>>> pig to program which is why most musicians who could afford one
>>>> just
>>>> used the presets and then bought sounds on rom carts.
>>>> The ultra rare programmer for the DX7 is silly money!
>>>> Talking of knobs and sliders,checkout the Korg 707 it has 4
>>>> sliders,2
>>>> assignable to eg, only 4op but dirt cheap on craigslist/ebay and
>>>> they
>>>> are better than most people think.
>>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Paul]

Ta Dan,

Gee, you have an astounding keyboard collection !! ha ha

i found that the likes of Korg Poly's and Roland Juno's etc were very good for SYNTH type sounds (eg, Synth Bass, Synth Pad, Synth Srings, etc). But for REALISTIC accoustic sounds (like a Flute, Guitar, Piano, etc) they were very weak and limited. And for these latter sounds the DX7 came into its own as a powerful instrument.

Paul



--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Forró <***@...> wrote:
>
> Yes, those two synths are good examples.
>
> Those analog synths mostly don't have many parameters, and rather
> limited sound possibilities, so it's quite easy to set them. On the
> other side there's not possible to create so much totally different
> sounds like on many modern digital instruments. Some typical features,
> or used circuits also made sound uniform - lot of manufacturers used
> CEM or SSM chips.
>
> So answer is yes, even analog synths and their typical sounds (as a
> part of factory set) are recognizable in records, and users used the
> same basic sounds.
>
> I had really huge collection of analog synths (as a part of my Museum
> of EA instruments working between 1989 and 2003), and much more I
> didn't owned, but could use them, program, repair, renovate... during
> my 40 years of work with electronic instruments. I published more
> books and hundreds of expert articles, reviews, tests, did thousands
> of demonstrations, seminars, clinics...
> But in the end I sold most of them because I was not satisfied with
> their sound and possibilities. Like 3 Minimoogs, Prophet 5, Jupiter 8,
> 2 ARP2600, 2 Polymoog Synthesizers, almost complete ARP line, almost
> complete Korg line, almost complete Yamaha line, few Hammond organ,
> Vox Continental, also Hohner clavinets, Wurlitzer Pianos, Rhodes
> pianos... Boring. Add everlasting problems, maintenance, repairs (and
> some special chips or other components are not available nowadays...)
> - I got tired from all this.
>
> I still keep some which I couldn't sell, but don't use them at all.
> Recently I do again cleaning after another 10 years, recapping,
> repairs, and plan to use them more in combination with many other
> digital gear I have, maybe this is the good way. For example I'd like
> to use sometimes my CP80, CS80, 2x CS40m, CS15D, SK20, SY1, YC45D,
> B30R... when talking about Yamaha gear, but I have more :-)
>
> To me more exciting are instruments like SY99, EX5, VL1, DX7, DX7II,
> TX816, TX416, TX802, FS1r, PSR9000 Pro, P500, TG77, TG500, TG33, RM50,
> RX5, TX16W, MU128... to name just Yamaha. Virtual analog synths are
> quite satisfying for me, still I regret I have sold my AN1x many years
> ago... when there's a chance, I will purchase it again.
>
> Daniel Forro
>
>
> On 10 Aug, 2013, at 11:38 PM, Paul wrote:
>
> > Hi Dan,
> >
> > Well i remember when i bought a Korg M1 i heard the factory sounds
> > on almost everything from that point for a good couple of years !!
> > And i dare say that Roland D-50 owners would say the same thing.
> >
> > i may be very wrong here, but i would have thought that users of the
> > likes of Korg Poly's or Roland Juno's would have deviated from the
> > factory sounds (or hardly even used them at all) because of the
> > physical (hands-on) layout of the instrument and relatively user-
> > friendly approach to sound-creating ?? Or would you say (to a
> > certain extent) most players found theese analogue EASY to program
> > once they had gotten the basics understood ?? For instance, did you
> > hear the SAME factory sounds with these analogue synths on records ??
> >
> > Paul
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Forró <dan.for@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Exactly. Those times I had nice game - to guess the name, cartridge,
> >> bank and number of the DX sound I've heard. Until now I still
> >> surprise
> >> sometimes my wife when we hear the music in old Japanese anime by
> >> telling her name of the DX sound :-)
> >>
> >> Concerning the sound design creativity I'm afraid it was not only
> >> case
> >> of DX7... much simpler synths and samplers were used only with
> >> factory
> >> presets, and some of the very typical sounds became notoriously
> >> overused. And boring. But new generation use them again without a
> >> shame. What a shame.
> >>
> >> Daniel Forro
> >>
> >>
> >> On 10 Aug, 2013, at 11:15 PM, Paul wrote:
> >>
> >>> Thanks Jason,
> >>>
> >>> i understand now what you are saying.
> >>>
> >>> i watched a few You Tube interviews with semi-famous musicians of
> >>> the 1980's, and they said that throughout this period most of the
> >>> 'pop' music records just used the PRESET sounds (or slight
> >>> modifications of) because the average session musician found the
> >>> synth too dificult to program. And as a result, you kept hearing
> >>> all the SAME DX sounds on TV, films, and recordings !!
> >>>
> >>> Paul
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Jason Adkins <jason_ralf808@>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi Paul,
> >>>>
> >>>> I think people complained because it didn't have knobs and sliders
> >>>> and
> >>>> it had operators and algorithm's and to be fair the original DX7
> >>>> is a
> >>>> pig to program which is why most musicians who could afford one
> >>>> just
> >>>> used the presets and then bought sounds on rom carts.
> >>>> The ultra rare programmer for the DX7 is silly money!
> >>>> Talking of knobs and sliders,checkout the Korg 707 it has 4
> >>>> sliders,2
> >>>> assignable to eg, only 4op but dirt cheap on craigslist/ebay and
> >>>> they
> >>>> are better than most people think.
> >>>>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>

[Daniel Forró]

I'm satisfied with my studio and stage gear, but you know, there's
always at least one instrument, cable, stand, mixer.... missing. In
recent years I didn't buy much new instruments, and if I could afford,
I would like to have Korg Oasys or Kronos, Roland Jupiter 80, Korg
PA3X and Yamaha Tyros 4... plus many other.

Yes, I thought the same about the very wide sound offer of DX7, before
I have heard first samplers :-) Then clearly I could reveal lot of
weak points on DX/TX synthesis, and it helped me better recognize its
strong points and use them. When later romplers came, I almost stopped
to use my DX/TX for acoustic emulations... With little exaggeration we
cay say that any modern, even cheap Casio keyboard with GM set can
have better trumpet or clarinet sound than DX. Nothing to say about
Yamaha VL1 or Korg Prophecy. Another thing is ability of performer -
this is the most limiting factor. When somebody doesn't know how to
imitate well acoustic instruments, and plays everything the same way
like on the piano, without any knowledge of authentic texture of
emulated sound, then even the best instrument can't help him. And when
somebody has this knowledge and experience, even not so good basic
sound can sound authentically.

Lack of filters and effect processors is also limiting factor in sound
design on DX7. And for practical use - limited polyphony and
multitimbrality... Which was improved in later instruments - TX802, SY/
TG77, SY99 (my favorite instrument) and FS1r.

Daniel Forro



On 11 Aug, 2013, at 12:34 AM, Paul wrote:

> Ta Dan,
>
> Gee, you have an astounding keyboard collection !! ha ha
>
> i found that the likes of Korg Poly's and Roland Juno's etc were
> very good for SYNTH type sounds (eg, Synth Bass, Synth Pad, Synth
> Srings, etc). But for REALISTIC accoustic sounds (like a Flute,
> Guitar, Piano, etc) they were very weak and limited. And for these
> latter sounds the DX7 came into its own as a powerful instrument.
>
> Paul

[Paul]

Dan,

Yes, i dare say that a lot of the basic GM sounds on a regular synth may sound better than the DX7 internal sounds !! Quite difficult (as sad) to imagine really when you consider what a revolutionary instrument it once was !!

When i first started playing pro i used to play the synth like a PIANO and had no 'synth-technique' whatsoever. And i never once used the Pitch Bend or Mod Wheel for at least a couple of years !! The thing which threw me the most was that most synths were not touch-sensative and only had 5 x octaves. And then after a few years the REVESRE happened in that i could not play the PIANO anymore !! i had lost all the strength in my fingers and my left-hand had become static (due to holding down sustained-chords all the time). It was quite a shocking experience though i am sure lots of keys players went thru the same issues.

When the DX7 came out in the early 1980's, was it cheap/expensive for the time (based on the average musicians wage) ??

Paul




>
> Yes, I thought the same about the very wide sound offer of DX7, before
> I have heard first samplers :-) Then clearly I could reveal lot of
> weak points on DX/TX synthesis, and it helped me better recognize its
> strong points and use them. When later romplers came, I almost stopped
> to use my DX/TX for acoustic emulations... With little exaggeration we
> cay say that any modern, even cheap Casio keyboard with GM set can
> have better trumpet or clarinet sound than DX. Nothing to say about
> Yamaha VL1 or Korg Prophecy. Another thing is ability of performer -
> this is the most limiting factor. When somebody doesn't know how to
> imitate well acoustic instruments, and plays everything the same way
> like on the piano, without any knowledge of authentic texture of
> emulated sound, then even the best instrument can't help him. And when
> somebody has this knowledge and experience, even not so good basic
> sound can sound authentically.
>
> Lack of filters and effect processors is also limiting factor in sound
> design on DX7. And for practical use - limited polyphony and
> multitimbrality... Which was improved in later instruments - TX802, SY/
> TG77, SY99 (my favorite instrument) and FS1r.
>

[Daniel Forró]

Paul,

you are right that every keyboard instrument has different technique.
I studied and play all of them - piano, pipe organ, harpsichord,
Hammond, electronic organ, clavinet, E-piano... in many different
styles from classical to pop, jazz, fusion, ethnic, improvised music,
electronic pop, experimental electronic & computer music, microtonal
music... Each of them has its specific problems.

But most of all I like synthesizer, because of its versatility -
imitative sounds, innovative sounds, sound effects, soundscapes... I
like also light touch of half weighted keys.

Pitch bend, Modulation wheel, other controllers, foot pedals, foot
switches, breath controller, ribbon controller, velocity, aftertouch -
all this is essential to the synthesizer identity and should be used.

I don't know what was average musicians wage in the world, or Western
countries. When DX7 came to the market, I was still Music Academy
student with little income, and closed in the country behind the Iron
Curtain, Western instruments were not available there, and we could
buy only used instruments from restaurant musicians who only could
work in the West and bring informations and instruments. I knew soon
about it, but could only dream about. But finally I bought used
instrument in 1986, later changed for Roland JX10 and bought TX7. Then
I had DX7 more times, and finally bought one here in Japan few years
ago, from good series, for great price and in good shape. Few weeks
ago i had changed all capacitors, everything works like a charm. Also
DX7 II D and FD I had more times, always sold and later regretted and
bought again. Recently I have DX7 II D, bought in Japan, also in very
good shape, I recapped only PSU. Unfortunately OS version is early so
there's no test mode, so I plan to change Eprom.
Beautiful instruments also by design.

Wasn't original price about 4500 German Mark or so in 1983? I think
not so expensive as Prophet 5, Roland Jupiter 8 or Elka Synthex, but
more expensive than Korg Polysix, Poly 61 or Roland Juno 60 (I had
them all)...

Daniel Forro

On 11 Aug, 2013, at 1:39 AM, Paul wrote:

> Dan,
>
> Yes, i dare say that a lot of the basic GM sounds on a regular synth
> may sound better than the DX7 internal sounds !! Quite difficult
> (as sad) to imagine really when you consider what a revolutionary
> instrument it once was !!
>
> When i first started playing pro i used to play the synth like a
> PIANO and had no 'synth-technique' whatsoever. And i never once
> used the Pitch Bend or Mod Wheel for at least a couple of years !!
> The thing which threw me the most was that most synths were not
> touch-sensative and only had 5 x octaves. And then after a few
> years the REVESRE happened in that i could not play the PIANO
> anymore !! i had lost all the strength in my fingers and my left-
> hand had become static (due to holding down sustained-chords all the
> time). It was quite a shocking experience though i am sure lots of
> keys players went thru the same issues.
>
> When the DX7 came out in the early 1980's, was it cheap/expensive
> for the time (based on the average musicians wage) ??
>
> Paul

[Paul]

you are right that every keyboard instrument has different technique.
> I studied and play all of them - piano, pipe organ, harpsichord,
> Hammond, electronic organ, clavinet, E-piano... in many different
> styles from classical to pop, jazz, fusion, ethnic, improvised music,
> electronic pop, experimental electronic & computer music, microtonal
> music... Each of them has its specific problems.

Wow, you have really covered EVERY synth and style of music !! Thats amazing.




> Wasn't original price about 4500 German Mark or so in 1983? I think
> not so expensive as Prophet 5, Roland Jupiter 8 or Elka Synthex, but
> more expensive than Korg Polysix, Poly 61 or Roland Juno 60 (I had
> them all)...

One ebay, the Jupiter 8 sells for around 6,000-Euros(!!!), the Poly 61 500-Euros and DX7 600-Euros.

[jammie]

im just a programmer these days

and i have a new workshop on wavetable synthesis with ensoniq synths and samplers

and we do patches and presets creation i do one on one workshops with step by step learning

i mostly do big sample collections for synths and workstations from kurzweil to korg to roland

and do dsp synths and modular

and over the years created loads of patches and collected loads

as daniel can tell you

i prefer the trial and error aproach ill pick a param and tweak it to see what it does

then use different modulators to see how they act on each other

the best way with fm is only to use 2 ops and a spectrum analzer and see what each setting does for each amount of modulation setting and feed back and how a envelope acts on pitch and volume

once you have worked this out write down your findings as most patches on dx7 are made up of 3 pairs of 2 ops

then your in additive teritory by adding 3 2op sounds and blending them with different envelopes and settings you can make really rich evolving patches with the dx711 you can add 2 layers

and on the sy99 you can add 4 layers giving very fat sounds but they are only mono for this i multisample them with 6 layers of velocity for each note they become 1gb sound files but they sound great being played poly in kontakt
----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel Forró
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2013 6:07 PM
Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] Re: Other DX7 books?



Paul,

you are right that every keyboard instrument has different technique.
I studied and play all of them - piano, pipe organ, harpsichord,
Hammond, electronic organ, clavinet, E-piano... in many different
styles from classical to pop, jazz, fusion, ethnic, improvised music,
electronic pop, experimental electronic & computer music, microtonal
music... Each of them has its specific problems.

But most of all I like synthesizer, because of its versatility -
imitative sounds, innovative sounds, sound effects, soundscapes... I
like also light touch of half weighted keys.

Pitch bend, Modulation wheel, other controllers, foot pedals, foot
switches, breath controller, ribbon controller, velocity, aftertouch -
all this is essential to the synthesizer identity and should be used.

I don't know what was average musicians wage in the world, or Western
countries. When DX7 came to the market, I was still Music Academy
student with little income, and closed in the country behind the Iron
Curtain, Western instruments were not available there, and we could
buy only used instruments from restaurant musicians who only could
work in the West and bring informations and instruments. I knew soon
about it, but could only dream about. But finally I bought used
instrument in 1986, later changed for Roland JX10 and bought TX7. Then
I had DX7 more times, and finally bought one here in Japan few years
ago, from good series, for great price and in good shape. Few weeks
ago i had changed all capacitors, everything works like a charm. Also
DX7 II D and FD I had more times, always sold and later regretted and
bought again. Recently I have DX7 II D, bought in Japan, also in very
good shape, I recapped only PSU. Unfortunately OS version is early so
there's no test mode, so I plan to change Eprom.
Beautiful instruments also by design.

Wasn't original price about 4500 German Mark or so in 1983? I think
not so expensive as Prophet 5, Roland Jupiter 8 or Elka Synthex, but
more expensive than Korg Polysix, Poly 61 or Roland Juno 60 (I had
them all)...

Daniel Forro

On 11 Aug, 2013, at 1:39 AM, Paul wrote:

> Dan,
>
> Yes, i dare say that a lot of the basic GM sounds on a regular synth
> may sound better than the DX7 internal sounds !! Quite difficult
> (as sad) to imagine really when you consider what a revolutionary
> instrument it once was !!
>
> When i first started playing pro i used to play the synth like a
> PIANO and had no 'synth-technique' whatsoever. And i never once
> used the Pitch Bend or Mod Wheel for at least a couple of years !!
> The thing which threw me the most was that most synths were not
> touch-sensative and only had 5 x octaves. And then after a few
> years the REVESRE happened in that i could not play the PIANO
> anymore !! i had lost all the strength in my fingers and my left-
> hand had become static (due to holding down sustained-chords all the
> time). It was quite a shocking experience though i am sure lots of
> keys players went thru the same issues.
>
> When the DX7 came out in the early 1980's, was it cheap/expensive
> for the time (based on the average musicians wage) ??
>
> Paul




No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3211/6567 - Release Date: 08/10/13

[jammie]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/552524268147339/

this is the workshop group any one is free to join and do preset workshops

we fm and am synthesis on the ensoniq samplers eps16+ and asr10 as they have a sample loop algo called loop-pitch- x

and its very clever in that it does sample loop modulation set and it will loop a single cycle waves in portions set by you and then it sweeps in the amount of memory set but keeps the pitch

by using lfo and envelopes you can set the amount of fm or am modulation to get fm sounds

then as you have 8 layers you can additive add 8 different fm modulation and can create some complex sounds that change over time

the allesis 6hd and 8hd fusion also have fm synthesis and you have to do it from the screen as there is no editor via sysex as they never finished the implementation of it

and that is harder to program than the dx7 at least you have computer editor to visualize what you are doing
----- Original Message -----
From: jammie
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2013 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] Re: Other DX7 books?




im just a programmer these days

and i have a new workshop on wavetable synthesis with ensoniq synths and samplers

and we do patches and presets creation i do one on one workshops with step by step learning

i mostly do big sample collections for synths and workstations from kurzweil to korg to roland

and do dsp synths and modular

and over the years created loads of patches and collected loads

as daniel can tell you

i prefer the trial and error aproach ill pick a param and tweak it to see what it does

then use different modulators to see how they act on each other

the best way with fm is only to use 2 ops and a spectrum analzer and see what each setting does for each amount of modulation setting and feed back and how a envelope acts on pitch and volume

once you have worked this out write down your findings as most patches on dx7 are made up of 3 pairs of 2 ops

then your in additive teritory by adding 3 2op sounds and blending them with different envelopes and settings you can make really rich evolving patches with the dx711 you can add 2 layers

and on the sy99 you can add 4 layers giving very fat sounds but they are only mono for this i multisample them with 6 layers of velocity for each note they become 1gb sound files but they sound great being played poly in kontakt
----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel Forró
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2013 6:07 PM
Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] Re: Other DX7 books?



Paul,

you are right that every keyboard instrument has different technique.
I studied and play all of them - piano, pipe organ, harpsichord,
Hammond, electronic organ, clavinet, E-piano... in many different
styles from classical to pop, jazz, fusion, ethnic, improvised music,
electronic pop, experimental electronic & computer music, microtonal
music... Each of them has its specific problems.

But most of all I like synthesizer, because of its versatility -
imitative sounds, innovative sounds, sound effects, soundscapes... I
like also light touch of half weighted keys.

Pitch bend, Modulation wheel, other controllers, foot pedals, foot
switches, breath controller, ribbon controller, velocity, aftertouch -
all this is essential to the synthesizer identity and should be used.

I don't know what was average musicians wage in the world, or Western
countries. When DX7 came to the market, I was still Music Academy
student with little income, and closed in the country behind the Iron
Curtain, Western instruments were not available there, and we could
buy only used instruments from restaurant musicians who only could
work in the West and bring informations and instruments. I knew soon
about it, but could only dream about. But finally I bought used
instrument in 1986, later changed for Roland JX10 and bought TX7. Then
I had DX7 more times, and finally bought one here in Japan few years
ago, from good series, for great price and in good shape. Few weeks
ago i had changed all capacitors, everything works like a charm. Also
DX7 II D and FD I had more times, always sold and later regretted and
bought again. Recently I have DX7 II D, bought in Japan, also in very
good shape, I recapped only PSU. Unfortunately OS version is early so
there's no test mode, so I plan to change Eprom.
Beautiful instruments also by design.

Wasn't original price about 4500 German Mark or so in 1983? I think
not so expensive as Prophet 5, Roland Jupiter 8 or Elka Synthex, but
more expensive than Korg Polysix, Poly 61 or Roland Juno 60 (I had
them all)...

Daniel Forro

On 11 Aug, 2013, at 1:39 AM, Paul wrote:

> Dan,
>
> Yes, i dare say that a lot of the basic GM sounds on a regular synth
> may sound better than the DX7 internal sounds !! Quite difficult
> (as sad) to imagine really when you consider what a revolutionary
> instrument it once was !!
>
> When i first started playing pro i used to play the synth like a
> PIANO and had no 'synth-technique' whatsoever. And i never once
> used the Pitch Bend or Mod Wheel for at least a couple of years !!
> The thing which threw me the most was that most synths were not
> touch-sensative and only had 5 x octaves. And then after a few
> years the REVESRE happened in that i could not play the PIANO
> anymore !! i had lost all the strength in my fingers and my left-
> hand had become static (due to holding down sustained-chords all the
> time). It was quite a shocking experience though i am sure lots of
> keys players went thru the same issues.
>
> When the DX7 came out in the early 1980's, was it cheap/expensive
> for the time (based on the average musicians wage) ??
>
> Paul



No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3211/6567 - Release Date: 08/10/13



No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3211/6567 - Release Date: 08/10/13

[Paul]

Hi Jammie,

Thanks, and i am sure the group is excellent. But i do not use Facebook sorry. Friends and family keep asking me to join but its just not really my thing.

Cheers,

Paul



--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, "jammie" <***@...> wrote:
>
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/552524268147339/
>
> this is the workshop group any one is free to join and do preset workshops
>

[jammie]

i dont use face book either

its my wifes account i just host the group on there the good thing about face book is if you dont want people there you dont have to tell them your on

as its a closed group only htose i allow are allowed to join and you done get crappy emials all the time and spam as i dont allow spamers to enter

as with face book unlike foerums you can look them up first before you let them join to see if they really do have the synth or samplers and if they do music
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2013 6:59 PM
Subject: [YamahaDX] Re: Other DX7 books?



Hi Jammie,

Thanks, and i am sure the group is excellent. But i do not use Facebook sorry. Friends and family keep asking me to join but its just not really my thing.

Cheers,

Paul

--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, "jammie" <***@...> wrote:
>
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/552524268147339/
>
> this is the workshop group any one is free to join and do preset workshops
>




No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3211/6567 - Release Date: 08/10/13

[rawl47]

Here is a link to another great resource:

This is part one:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may99/articles/synthsec.htm

part two:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun99/articles/synthsecrets.htm

part three:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul99/articles/synthsecrets.htm

part four:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug99/articles/synthsecrets.htm

etc.

This is a 63 part series of articles.

If you need the rest of the links I can post them as well.

Rawl

[Paul]

Thats excellent Rawl,

i looked at the first two essays. If there are 63 in the series then thats a wealth of material !!

Paul


--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, "rawl47" <***@...> wrote:
>
> Here is a link to another great resource:
>
> This is a 63 part series of articles.
>
> If you need the rest of the links I can post them as well.
>
> Rawl
>

[Mike Ward]

That's cause you are probably to old. As I am. LoL. I'm sixty and I don't really like the social media.




________________________________
From: Paul <***@hotmail.com>
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2013 12:59 PM
Subject: [YamahaDX] Re: Other DX7 books?



 
Hi Jammie,

Thanks, and i am sure the group is excellent. But i do not use Facebook sorry. Friends and family keep asking me to join but its just not really my thing.

Cheers,

Paul

--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, "jammie" <***@...> wrote:
>
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/552524268147339/
>
> this is the workshop group any one is free to join and do preset workshops
>

[Paul]

Mike,

Well, i know LOTS of people who say :-

"i don't like that guy John Smith in our work place, although we are still 'FREINDS' on Facebook" !!!

i mean come on, either you like someone or you don't !! Or am i missing something here ??

Paul



--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Mike Ward <***@...> wrote:
>
> That's cause you are probably to old. As I am. LoL. I'm sixty and I don't really like the social media.
>
>


> From: Paul <***@...>
> To: ***@yahoogroups.com

But i do not use Facebook sorry. Friends and family keep asking me to join but its just not really my thing.

[Mike Ward]

No, I agree with you. It's just that my adult kids use Facebook and don't understand why I don't. I just can't get into it. :)




________________________________
From: Paul <***@hotmail.com>
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2013 9:06 AM
Subject: [YamahaDX] Re: Other DX7 books?



 
Mike,

Well, i know LOTS of people who say :-

"i don't like that guy John Smith in our work place, although we are still 'FREINDS' on Facebook" !!!

i mean come on, either you like someone or you don't !! Or am i missing something here ??

Paul

--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Mike Ward <***@...> wrote:
>
> That's cause you are probably to old. As I am. LoL. I'm sixty and I don't really like the social media.
>
>

> From: Paul <***@...>
> To: ***@yahoogroups.com

But i do not use Facebook sorry. Friends and family keep asking me to join but its just not really my thing.

[Paul]

Mike,

Yes quite, i think that anyone in this day and age who does not have a Facebook account is definately in the minority. You Tube, ebay and a couple of music forums like this one keep me more than busy !!

Plus i could not cope with people 'nudging' me to idle chat everytime i go online !!

Paul



--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Mike Ward <***@...> wrote:
>
> No, I agree with you. It's just that my adult kids use Facebook and don't understand why I don't. I just can't get into it. :)
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Paul <***@...>
> To: ***@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2013 9:06 AM
> Subject: [YamahaDX] Re: Other DX7 books?
>
>
>
>  
> Mike,
>
> Well, i know LOTS of people who say :-
>
> "i don't like that guy John Smith in our work place, although we are still 'FREINDS' on Facebook" !!!
>
> i mean come on, either you like someone or you don't !! Or am i missing something here ??
>
> Paul
>
> --- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Mike Ward <antebios1153@> wrote:
> >
> > That's cause you are probably to old. As I am. LoL. I'm sixty and I don't really like the social media.
> >
> >
>
> > From: Paul <paulseaman1@>
> > To: ***@yahoogroups.com
>
> But i do not use Facebook sorry. Friends and family keep asking me to join but its just not really my thing.
>

[Wilson Zorn]

Depends on the context; I might like a person at work "as a person"
but not as a colleague. Or vice-versa. Or I might like a person in
some ways but not others, such that I might say I "like" them in
aggregate but that may be rather tenuous and situational.

"Friend," to me, is a special term and I'd say I have few real friends
but lots of acquaintances I like. Of course, Facebook's use of the
term "friend" is highly casual, simply meaning "someone I know from
whom I'm willing to see updates."

On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 7:06 AM, Paul <***@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Mike,
>
> Well, i know LOTS of people who say :-
>
> "i don't like that guy John Smith in our work place, although we are still 'FREINDS' on Facebook" !!!
>
> i mean come on, either you like someone or you don't !! Or am i missing something here ??
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> --- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Mike Ward <***@...> wrote:
>>
>> That's cause you are probably to old. As I am. LoL. I'm sixty and I don't really like the social media.
>>
>>
>
>
>> From: Paul <***@...>
>> To: ***@yahoogroups.com
>
> But i do not use Facebook sorry. Friends and family keep asking me to join but its just not really my thing.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Paul]

Hi Jammie,

Thank you, thats very interesting indeed and i am grateful for any such advice. i am enjoing being a member of this forum as it seems that everyone is an 'expert' in their own particular way.

What i would REALLY like (please) would be to hook up on Skype with someone from this site at some point. i have a few questions that are really confusing me and therefore holding me back. They are not difficult or complex at all, but it would be far more easier to discuss them verbally as opposed to via this thread. Would only take 10 x mins maximum and i could pay you something towards your time.

Paul



> i prefer the trial and error aproach ill pick a param and tweak it to see what it does
>
> then use different modulators to see how they act on each other
>
> the best way with fm is only to use 2 ops and a spectrum analzer and see what each setting does for each amount of modulation setting and feed back and how a envelope acts on pitch and volume
>
> once you have worked this out write down your findings as most patches on dx7 are made up of 3 pairs of 2 ops
>
> then your in additive teritory by adding 3 2op sounds and blending them with different envelopes and settings you can make really rich evolving patches with the dx711 you can add 2 layers

[Mike Ward]

I don't think the sounds were revolutionary, but the portability was excellent. I had a Hammond A100 two Leslies an ARP Odyssey, a Honner Clavinet, and s Fender Rhodes that I played through two folded horn speakers and a Sun Concert Amp. I have to have a big ass van to transport all this stuff. With the DX7 I had a car with a trunk to haul the keyboard and the amp which was a Marshall amp. :)




________________________________
From: Paul <***@hotmail.com>
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2013 11:39 AM
Subject: [YamahaDX] Re: Other DX7 books?



 
Dan,

Yes, i dare say that a lot of the basic GM sounds on a regular synth may sound better than the DX7 internal sounds !! Quite difficult (as sad) to imagine really when you consider what a revolutionary instrument it once was !!

When i first started playing pro i used to play the synth like a PIANO and had no 'synth-technique' whatsoever. And i never once used the Pitch Bend or Mod Wheel for at least a couple of years !! The thing which threw me the most was that most synths were not touch-sensative and only had 5 x octaves. And then after a few years the REVESRE happened in that i could not play the PIANO anymore !! i had lost all the strength in my fingers and my left-hand had become static (due to holding down sustained-chords all the time). It was quite a shocking experience though i am sure lots of keys players went thru the same issues.

When the DX7 came out in the early 1980's, was it cheap/expensive for the time (based on the average musicians wage) ??

Paul

>
> Yes, I thought the same about the very wide sound offer of DX7, before
> I have heard first samplers :-) Then clearly I could reveal lot of
> weak points on DX/TX synthesis, and it helped me better recognize its
> strong points and use them. When later romplers came, I almost stopped
> to use my DX/TX for acoustic emulations... With little exaggeration we
> cay say that any modern, even cheap Casio keyboard with GM set can
> have better trumpet or clarinet sound than DX. Nothing to say about
> Yamaha VL1 or Korg Prophecy. Another thing is ability of performer -
> this is the most limiting factor. When somebody doesn't know how to
> imitate well acoustic instruments, and plays everything the same way
> like on the piano, without any knowledge of authentic texture of
> emulated sound, then even the best instrument can't help him. And when
> somebody has this knowledge and experience, even not so good basic
> sound can sound authentically.
>
> Lack of filters and effect processors is also limiting factor in sound
> design on DX7. And for practical use - limited polyphony and
> multitimbrality... Which was improved in later instruments - TX802, SY/
> TG77, SY99 (my favorite instrument) and FS1r.
>

[Paul]

Mike,

i thought the sounds would have been MINDBLOWING for the time, but i don't know really as i did not come on the music scene until around 1988.

Paul



--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Mike Ward <***@...> wrote:
>
> I don't think the sounds were revolutionary.........
>
> _

_______________________________
> From: Paul <***@...>
> To: ***@yahoogroups.com
>
> Yes, i dare say that a lot of the basic GM sounds on a regular synth may sound better than the DX7 internal sounds !! Quite difficult (as sad) to imagine really when you consider what a revolutionary instrument it once was !!

[Yvonne R]

BUT is that a bad thing ?? People bought the Hammond for the "Hammond
sound" ... I guess they bought the DX for the "DX sound / special FX"

People take a long time to actually try out most things ... Microsoft
proved that with Word ... they asked millions of users what they would like
to see in a future release of Word .. ... they got a ton of replies ...
and so went to work to find the most popular ... they never had to change
anything !!! ALL the requested features and functions were ALREADY in the
package ... !! People hardly ever use the technology they have to its full
potential .. yet buy new items to try and get a specific function ... when,
in the majority of cases, I suspect, they have the option in the kit they
have .. but just haven't looked into using it correctly.

One of the main problems with technology, especially when applied to music,
is ... musicians are not engineers !! Sadly engineers are, on the most
part, not musicians ... yet to get the very best out of, say a DX, you
really need to be an engineer ... but to play it requires a good musician !!

I used to be an engineer in Birmingham UK .. I worked for several of the
music shops ( several at the same time !!) .. I was asked to play a
Gulbranson organ once by the manager of one shop ... I told him I had a
better chance of flying to the moon from a standing start .... we asked my
why I could not play ... I replied with ... "so why can't you repair them
?" .... he thought ... nodded ... and went out to play for the customer !
...

The same problem seems to be prevalent almost anywhere there is technology
... the majority of programmers do not know how to be a given discipline
(Doctor, Lawyer ... etc) .. yet write the software the former have to use
... and the former have no idea how to write the software !! Its a sad
fact of life that people don't (won't ? ) talk to each other a lot ... if
they did then maybe we would get software that people could use easily in
their given discipline instead of having to try and "think like the
programmer" that wrote it ! ..

Given the above I am amazed there have been ANY useable electronic
instruments at all ! .. I suspect the engineers at the major makers are of
the opinion that the instruments are great ... except for the musicians
.. (much like a teacher who stated ... with all genuine honesty ...
"Colleges are wonderful ... apart from the students" !!)

The saying "there is no 'I' in team" ... should apply here .. there needs
to be an engineer and a musician per instrument ! .. the musician coming up
with the ideas ... and the engineer making the ideas happen ...

I wonder if THAT will ever happen ...






At 14:15 10/08/13 +0000, you wrote:
>Thanks Jason,
>
>i understand now what you are saying.
>
>i watched a few You Tube interviews with semi-famous musicians of the
>1980's, and they said that throughout this period most of the 'pop' music
>records just used the PRESET sounds (or slight modifications of) because
>the average session musician found the synth too dificult to program. And
>as a result, you kept hearing all the SAME DX sounds on TV, films, and
>recordings !!
>
>Paul
>
>
>--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Jason Adkins <***@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Paul,
> >
> > I think people complained because it didn't have knobs and sliders and
> > it had operators and algorithm's and to be fair the original DX7 is a
> > pig to program which is why most musicians who could afford one just
> > used the presets and then bought sounds on rom carts.
> > The ultra rare programmer for the DX7 is silly money!
> > Talking of knobs and sliders,checkout the Korg 707 it has 4 sliders,2
> > assignable to eg, only 4op but dirt cheap on craigslist/ebay and they
> > are better than most people think.
> >
> > J
> >
> >
> > On 10 Aug 2013, at 00:53, Paul wrote:
> >
> > > i was bidding on ebay on the Howard Massey book last week but got
> > > outbidded at the last minute (which was really annoying !!). So it
> > > is great to at least have a PDF copy of it.
> > >
> > > If there has been so much written about the DX7 (as seems the case
> > > here), then why did everyone complain in the 1980's that it was too
> > > difficult to understand and operate ??
> > >
> > > --- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Allan Yates <allan@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > You're welcome. My contribution was the scan of The Complete
> > > DX7II. Everything else I found on other people's sites. I collected
> > > all the info while repairing a friends unit. This is just my way of
> > > giving back.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Allan.
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: ***@yahoogroups.com [***@yahoogroups.com] on
> > > behalf of Paul [paulseaman1@]
> > > > Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 5:07 PM
> > > > To: ***@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: [YamahaDX] Re: Other DX7 books?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > WOW, lots of useful books on the Mr Yates site !! i just
> > > downloaded a few. Look forward to reading them. THANKS !!
> > > >
> > > > --- In ***@yahoogroups.com<mailto:YamahaDX > >
> %40yahoogroups.com>, "rawl47" <rawl747@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Don't forget this great resource:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://yates.ca/dx7/
> > > > >
> > > > > Mr. Yates has a fair number of these titles already in
> > > electronic format for your reading pleasure.
> > > > >
> > > > > Plus some other useful technical information. Mr. Yates has had
> > > his repository around for quite a few years...
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > Rawl
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Paul]

Hi Yvonne,

Well (for me) the greatest keyboard players in the world have been Herbie Hancock, Joe Zawinul, and Chick Corea. Whatever synth is in their hands they make it their 'own'. The former two here are GENIOUS programers and use their synths to the full potential. And Zawinul worked closey with Korg to help develop its technology.

i had often seen the type of advertising statement "Designed by musicians for musicians" and so collaborations must have existed in certain situations.


Anyway, the people at the top of their game seem to be bloody good at EVERYTHING !! Hancock has always been very interseted in Science and he says that (the invention of) synths allowed him to make the bridge between the two fields of Music and Science.

But on a more down-to-earth level, i have always known musicians to swing either towards being a 'player' or a 'programmer' for the most part.

Paul




--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Yvonne R <***@...> wrote:
>
> BUT is that a bad thing ?? People bought the Hammond for the "Hammond
> sound" ... I guess they bought the DX for the "DX sound / special FX"
>
> People take a long time to actually try out most things ... Microsoft
> proved that with Word ... they asked millions of users what they would like
> to see in a future release of Word .. ... they got a ton of replies ...
> and so went to work to find the most popular ... they never had to change
> anything !!! ALL the requested features and functions were ALREADY in the
> package ... !! People hardly ever use the technology they have to its full
> potential .. yet buy new items to try and get a specific function ... when,
> in the majority of cases, I suspect, they have the option in the kit they
> have .. but just haven't looked into using it correctly.
>
> One of the main problems with technology, especially when applied to music,
> is ... musicians are not engineers !! Sadly engineers are, on the most
> part, not musicians ... yet to get the very best out of, say a DX, you
> really need to be an engineer ... but to play it requires a good musician !!
>
> I used to be an engineer in Birmingham UK .. I worked for several of the
> music shops ( several at the same time !!) .. I was asked to play a
> Gulbranson organ once by the manager of one shop ... I told him I had a
> better chance of flying to the moon from a standing start .... we asked my
> why I could not play ... I replied with ... "so why can't you repair them
> ?" .... he thought ... nodded ... and went out to play for the customer !
> ...
>
> The same problem seems to be prevalent almost anywhere there is technology
> ... the majority of programmers do not know how to be a given discipline
> (Doctor, Lawyer ... etc) .. yet write the software the former have to use
> ... and the former have no idea how to write the software !! Its a sad
> fact of life that people don't (won't ? ) talk to each other a lot ... if
> they did then maybe we would get software that people could use easily in
> their given discipline instead of having to try and "think like the
> programmer" that wrote it ! ..
>
> Given the above I am amazed there have been ANY useable electronic
> instruments at all ! .. I suspect the engineers at the major makers are of
> the opinion that the instruments are great ... except for the musicians
> .. (much like a teacher who stated ... with all genuine honesty ...
> "Colleges are wonderful ... apart from the students" !!)
>
> The saying "there is no 'I' in team" ... should apply here .. there needs
> to be an engineer and a musician per instrument ! .. the musician coming up
> with the ideas ... and the engineer making the ideas happen ...
>
> I wonder if THAT will ever happen ...
>
>
>
>
>
>
> At 14:15 10/08/13 +0000, you wrote:
> >Thanks Jason,
> >
> >i understand now what you are saying.
> >
> >i watched a few You Tube interviews with semi-famous musicians of the
> >1980's, and they said that throughout this period most of the 'pop' music
> >records just used the PRESET sounds (or slight modifications of) because
> >the average session musician found the synth too dificult to program. And
> >as a result, you kept hearing all the SAME DX sounds on TV, films, and
> >recordings !!
> >
> >Paul
> >
> >
> >--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Jason Adkins <jason_ralf808@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Paul,
> > >
> > > I think people complained because it didn't have knobs and sliders and
> > > it had operators and algorithm's and to be fair the original DX7 is a
> > > pig to program which is why most musicians who could afford one just
> > > used the presets and then bought sounds on rom carts.
> > > The ultra rare programmer for the DX7 is silly money!
> > > Talking of knobs and sliders,checkout the Korg 707 it has 4 sliders,2
> > > assignable to eg, only 4op but dirt cheap on craigslist/ebay and they
> > > are better than most people think.
> > >
> > > J
> > >
> > >
> > > On 10 Aug 2013, at 00:53, Paul wrote:
> > >
> > > > i was bidding on ebay on the Howard Massey book last week but got
> > > > outbidded at the last minute (which was really annoying !!). So it
> > > > is great to at least have a PDF copy of it.
> > > >
> > > > If there has been so much written about the DX7 (as seems the case
> > > > here), then why did everyone complain in the 1980's that it was too
> > > > difficult to understand and operate ??
> > > >
> > > > --- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Allan Yates <allan@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > You're welcome. My contribution was the scan of The Complete
> > > > DX7II. Everything else I found on other people's sites. I collected
> > > > all the info while repairing a friends unit. This is just my way of
> > > > giving back.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Allan.
> > > > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > From: ***@yahoogroups.com [***@yahoogroups.com] on
> > > > behalf of Paul [paulseaman1@]
> > > > > Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 5:07 PM
> > > > > To: ***@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Subject: [YamahaDX] Re: Other DX7 books?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > WOW, lots of useful books on the Mr Yates site !! i just
> > > > downloaded a few. Look forward to reading them. THANKS !!
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In ***@yahoogroups.com<mailto:YamahaDX > >
> > %40yahoogroups.com>, "rawl47" <rawl747@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Don't forget this great resource:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://yates.ca/dx7/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mr. Yates has a fair number of these titles already in
> > > > electronic format for your reading pleasure.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Plus some other useful technical information. Mr. Yates has had
> > > > his repository around for quite a few years...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > Rawl
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>

[Yvonne R]

Hi Paul,
absolutely .. but I did say the majority, not all ! .. There will be the
few, the very few, who excel and that is what makes them the great names
they are ...

The only problem then ... is the "designed by musicians" ... is for the few
not the many .. and its the many who buy and say its "difficult" to
programme ... ( most will not put the effort in ... but to get what you
want ... you have too)

I managed to almost play reveille on a trumpet once ... and gave up ... as
I wanted to be a jazz musician .. it was not meant to be ... I just don't
have the patience ... but some do ... and the successful ones are very few
in number in any field ( not just music) .. these days I stick with making
a racket in my own home ... my days of being on stage with a guitar long
gone ... We were at a gig once and a chap came to the stage and said he
was from the "performing right society" and that they had received a
complaint ... we has what it was ... he stated we "weren't performing
right!!" I fear he was right even though it was meant to be a good
humored joke .. ( another of the band had set it up ) ..

I now stick with my engineering ability and made mods for things ... Like
Range Rovers and other vehicle related items ..(currently making a memory
mod for my DX that will be internal and be like a multiple ram cart) ... I
can programme a little .. and save the public the pain of my performances
.. I am, at heart, a humanitarian .. I don't like to see people in pain
... One day I will be rich and famous ... but, sadly, it will not be my
music that does it for me .. mind ... I am going deaf slowly ... so there
is time for me to write several symphonies yet ! lol !!

I like playing with music ... I found the lost chord once ... but lost it
again ... fame ... so fickle ... gone in an instant!

There is no substitute for knowledge ... but being able to apply it in a
practical fashion ... ... that's where the masters live !





At 15:03 10/08/13 +0000, you wrote:
>Hi Yvonne,
>
>Well (for me) the greatest keyboard players in the world have been Herbie
>Hancock, Joe Zawinul, and Chick Corea. Whatever synth is in their hands
>they make it their 'own'. The former two here are GENIOUS programers and
>use their synths to the full potential. And Zawinul worked closey with
>Korg to help develop its technology.
>
>i had often seen the type of advertising statement "Designed by musicians
>for musicians" and so collaborations must have existed in certain situations.
>
>
>Anyway, the people at the top of their game seem to be bloody good at
>EVERYTHING !! Hancock has always been very interseted in Science and he
>says that (the invention of) synths allowed him to make the bridge between
>the two fields of Music and Science.
>
>But on a more down-to-earth level, i have always known musicians to swing
>either towards being a 'player' or a 'programmer' for the most part.
>
>Paul
>
>
>
>
>--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Yvonne R <***@...> wrote:
> >
> > BUT is that a bad thing ?? People bought the Hammond for the "Hammond
> > sound" ... I guess they bought the DX for the "DX sound / special FX"
> >
> > People take a long time to actually try out most things ... Microsoft
> > proved that with Word ... they asked millions of users what they would
> like
> > to see in a future release of Word .. ... they got a ton of replies ...
> > and so went to work to find the most popular ... they never had to change
> > anything !!! ALL the requested features and functions were ALREADY in the
> > package ... !! People hardly ever use the technology they have to its
> full
> > potential .. yet buy new items to try and get a specific function ...
> when,
> > in the majority of cases, I suspect, they have the option in the kit they
> > have .. but just haven't looked into using it correctly.
> >
> > One of the main problems with technology, especially when applied to
> music,
> > is ... musicians are not engineers !! Sadly engineers are, on the most
> > part, not musicians ... yet to get the very best out of, say a DX, you
> > really need to be an engineer ... but to play it requires a good
> musician !!
> >
> > I used to be an engineer in Birmingham UK .. I worked for several of the
> > music shops ( several at the same time !!) .. I was asked to play a
> > Gulbranson organ once by the manager of one shop ... I told him I had a
> > better chance of flying to the moon from a standing start .... we asked my
> > why I could not play ... I replied with ... "so why can't you repair them
> > ?" .... he thought ... nodded ... and went out to play for the
> customer !
> > ...
> >
> > The same problem seems to be prevalent almost anywhere there is technology
> > ... the majority of programmers do not know how to be a given discipline
> > (Doctor, Lawyer ... etc) .. yet write the software the former have to use
> > ... and the former have no idea how to write the software !! Its a sad
> > fact of life that people don't (won't ? ) talk to each other a lot ... if
> > they did then maybe we would get software that people could use easily in
> > their given discipline instead of having to try and "think like the
> > programmer" that wrote it ! ..
> >
> > Given the above I am amazed there have been ANY useable electronic
> > instruments at all ! .. I suspect the engineers at the major makers
> are of
> > the opinion that the instruments are great ... except for the musicians
> > .. (much like a teacher who stated ... with all genuine honesty ...
> > "Colleges are wonderful ... apart from the students" !!)
> >
> > The saying "there is no 'I' in team" ... should apply here .. there needs
> > to be an engineer and a musician per instrument ! .. the musician
> coming up
> > with the ideas ... and the engineer making the ideas happen ...
> >
> > I wonder if THAT will ever happen ...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > At 14:15 10/08/13 +0000, you wrote:
> > >Thanks Jason,
> > >
> > >i understand now what you are saying.
> > >
> > >i watched a few You Tube interviews with semi-famous musicians of the
> > >1980's, and they said that throughout this period most of the 'pop' music
> > >records just used the PRESET sounds (or slight modifications of) because
> > >the average session musician found the synth too dificult to
> program. And
> > >as a result, you kept hearing all the SAME DX sounds on TV, films, and
> > >recordings !!
> > >
> > >Paul
> > >
> > >
> > >--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Jason Adkins <jason_ralf808@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Paul,
> > > >
> > > > I think people complained because it didn't have knobs and sliders and
> > > > it had operators and algorithm's and to be fair the original DX7 is a
> > > > pig to program which is why most musicians who could afford one just
> > > > used the presets and then bought sounds on rom carts.
> > > > The ultra rare programmer for the DX7 is silly money!
> > > > Talking of knobs and sliders,checkout the Korg 707 it has 4 sliders,2
> > > > assignable to eg, only 4op but dirt cheap on craigslist/ebay and they
> > > > are better than most people think.
> > > >
> > > > J
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 10 Aug 2013, at 00:53, Paul wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > i was bidding on ebay on the Howard Massey book last week but got
> > > > > outbidded at the last minute (which was really annoying !!). So it
> > > > > is great to at least have a PDF copy of it.
> > > > >
> > > > > If there has been so much written about the DX7 (as seems the case
> > > > > here), then why did everyone complain in the 1980's that it was too
> > > > > difficult to understand and operate ??
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Allan Yates <allan@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You're welcome. My contribution was the scan of The Complete
> > > > > DX7II. Everything else I found on other people's sites. I collected
> > > > > all the info while repairing a friends unit. This is just my way of
> > > > > giving back.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Allan.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > > From: ***@yahoogroups.com [***@yahoogroups.com] on
> > > > > behalf of Paul [paulseaman1@]
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 5:07 PM
> > > > > > To: ***@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Subject: [YamahaDX] Re: Other DX7 books?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > WOW, lots of useful books on the Mr Yates site !! i just
> > > > > downloaded a few. Look forward to reading them. THANKS !!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In ***@yahoogroups.com<mailto:YamahaDX > >
> > > %40yahoogroups.com>, "rawl47" <rawl747@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Don't forget this great resource:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://yates.ca/dx7/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mr. Yates has a fair number of these titles already in
> > > > > electronic format for your reading pleasure.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Plus some other useful technical information. Mr. Yates has had
> > > > > his repository around for quite a few years...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > > Rawl
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >------------------------------------
> > >
> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Paul]

Hi Yvonne,

Yes, you are absolutely 100% correct. Whatever it is that you want to do you need to apply yourself and make a commitment. i always wanted to learn BOXING but it was not until i was in my late 30's that i plucked up the courage to join a gym and go !! All those years spent THINKING about it !! Anyway, i try and go once a week, i will NEVER be any good at it and i have always been useless at sport. But i go and i enjoy it (when its over !!) though it is just a bit of fun and will never ever lead anywhere. i do not have the talent or commitment, period.

However, i was reading something recently and it was to do with a guy who was once asked the question "How LONG does it take to become proficient at a certain skill ??" (i think this guy was a successful sportsman). Anyway, he said that he had worked out that if a person spent 8 x hours per day, for 3 x years (total 8,760 x hours) then they would become very good indeed and whatever the chosen skill was. It could be completely ANYTHING (ie programming a DX7 !!!), but more commonly it was used to help master a sport, musical instrument, learning a foreign language, etc. i think it was based on the fact that a college Degree course is 3 x years long and that the successful students had spent around 8 x hours per day absorbing knowledge relavent to their field of study. So, thats 8,760 HOURS !!

i have been spending a couple of hours per day for the last 6 x months trying to learn about Synthesis in general. i am getting better at understanding it but it is one of those topics were 'The more you learn, the more you realise there IS to learn' !! ha ha

Paul




--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Yvonne R <***@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Paul,
> absolutely .. but I did say the majority, not all ! .. There will be the
> few, the very few, who excel and that is what makes them the great names
> they are ...
>
> The only problem then ... is the "designed by musicians" ... is for the few
> not the many .. and its the many who buy and say its "difficult" to
> programme ... ( most will not put the effort in ... but to get what you
> want ... you have too)
>
> I managed to almost play reveille on a trumpet once ... and gave up ... as
> I wanted to be a jazz musician .. it was not meant to be ... I just don't
> have the patience ... but some do ... and the successful ones are very few
> in number in any field ( not just music) .. these days I stick with making
> a racket in my own home ... my days of being on stage with a guitar long
> gone ... We were at a gig once and a chap came to the stage and said he
> was from the "performing right society" and that they had received a
> complaint ... we has what it was ... he stated we "weren't performing
> right!!" I fear he was right even though it was meant to be a good
> humored joke .. ( another of the band had set it up ) ..
>
> I now stick with my engineering ability and made mods for things ... Like
> Range Rovers and other vehicle related items ..(currently making a memory
> mod for my DX that will be internal and be like a multiple ram cart) ... I
> can programme a little .. and save the public the pain of my performances
> .. I am, at heart, a humanitarian .. I don't like to see people in pain
> ... One day I will be rich and famous ... but, sadly, it will not be my
> music that does it for me .. mind ... I am going deaf slowly ... so there
> is time for me to write several symphonies yet ! lol !!
>
> I like playing with music ... I found the lost chord once ... but lost it
> again ... fame ... so fickle ... gone in an instant!
>
> There is no substitute for knowledge ... but being able to apply it in a
> practical fashion ... ... that's where the masters live !
>
>
>
>
>
> At 15:03 10/08/13 +0000, you wrote:
> >Hi Yvonne,
> >
> >Well (for me) the greatest keyboard players in the world have been Herbie
> >Hancock, Joe Zawinul, and Chick Corea. Whatever synth is in their hands
> >they make it their 'own'. The former two here are GENIOUS programers and
> >use their synths to the full potential. And Zawinul worked closey with
> >Korg to help develop its technology.
> >
> >i had often seen the type of advertising statement "Designed by musicians
> >for musicians" and so collaborations must have existed in certain situations.
> >
> >
> >Anyway, the people at the top of their game seem to be bloody good at
> >EVERYTHING !! Hancock has always been very interseted in Science and he
> >says that (the invention of) synths allowed him to make the bridge between
> >the two fields of Music and Science.
> >
> >But on a more down-to-earth level, i have always known musicians to swing
> >either towards being a 'player' or a 'programmer' for the most part.
> >
> >Paul
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Yvonne R <yvonne.rhodes@> wrote:
> > >
> > > BUT is that a bad thing ?? People bought the Hammond for the "Hammond
> > > sound" ... I guess they bought the DX for the "DX sound / special FX"
> > >
> > > People take a long time to actually try out most things ... Microsoft
> > > proved that with Word ... they asked millions of users what they would
> > like
> > > to see in a future release of Word .. ... they got a ton of replies ...
> > > and so went to work to find the most popular ... they never had to change
> > > anything !!! ALL the requested features and functions were ALREADY in the
> > > package ... !! People hardly ever use the technology they have to its
> > full
> > > potential .. yet buy new items to try and get a specific function ...
> > when,
> > > in the majority of cases, I suspect, they have the option in the kit they
> > > have .. but just haven't looked into using it correctly.
> > >
> > > One of the main problems with technology, especially when applied to
> > music,
> > > is ... musicians are not engineers !! Sadly engineers are, on the most
> > > part, not musicians ... yet to get the very best out of, say a DX, you
> > > really need to be an engineer ... but to play it requires a good
> > musician !!
> > >
> > > I used to be an engineer in Birmingham UK .. I worked for several of the
> > > music shops ( several at the same time !!) .. I was asked to play a
> > > Gulbranson organ once by the manager of one shop ... I told him I had a
> > > better chance of flying to the moon from a standing start .... we asked my
> > > why I could not play ... I replied with ... "so why can't you repair them
> > > ?" .... he thought ... nodded ... and went out to play for the
> > customer !
> > > ...
> > >
> > > The same problem seems to be prevalent almost anywhere there is technology
> > > ... the majority of programmers do not know how to be a given discipline
> > > (Doctor, Lawyer ... etc) .. yet write the software the former have to use
> > > ... and the former have no idea how to write the software !! Its a sad
> > > fact of life that people don't (won't ? ) talk to each other a lot ... if
> > > they did then maybe we would get software that people could use easily in
> > > their given discipline instead of having to try and "think like the
> > > programmer" that wrote it ! ..
> > >
> > > Given the above I am amazed there have been ANY useable electronic
> > > instruments at all ! .. I suspect the engineers at the major makers
> > are of
> > > the opinion that the instruments are great ... except for the musicians
> > > .. (much like a teacher who stated ... with all genuine honesty ...
> > > "Colleges are wonderful ... apart from the students" !!)
> > >
> > > The saying "there is no 'I' in team" ... should apply here .. there needs
> > > to be an engineer and a musician per instrument ! .. the musician
> > coming up
> > > with the ideas ... and the engineer making the ideas happen ...
> > >
> > > I wonder if THAT will ever happen ...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > At 14:15 10/08/13 +0000, you wrote:
> > > >Thanks Jason,
> > > >
> > > >i understand now what you are saying.
> > > >
> > > >i watched a few You Tube interviews with semi-famous musicians of the
> > > >1980's, and they said that throughout this period most of the 'pop' music
> > > >records just used the PRESET sounds (or slight modifications of) because
> > > >the average session musician found the synth too dificult to
> > program. And
> > > >as a result, you kept hearing all the SAME DX sounds on TV, films, and
> > > >recordings !!
> > > >
> > > >Paul
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Jason Adkins <jason_ralf808@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Paul,
> > > > >
> > > > > I think people complained because it didn't have knobs and sliders and
> > > > > it had operators and algorithm's and to be fair the original DX7 is a
> > > > > pig to program which is why most musicians who could afford one just
> > > > > used the presets and then bought sounds on rom carts.
> > > > > The ultra rare programmer for the DX7 is silly money!
> > > > > Talking of knobs and sliders,checkout the Korg 707 it has 4 sliders,2
> > > > > assignable to eg, only 4op but dirt cheap on craigslist/ebay and they
> > > > > are better than most people think.
> > > > >
> > > > > J
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 10 Aug 2013, at 00:53, Paul wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > i was bidding on ebay on the Howard Massey book last week but got
> > > > > > outbidded at the last minute (which was really annoying !!). So it
> > > > > > is great to at least have a PDF copy of it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If there has been so much written about the DX7 (as seems the case
> > > > > > here), then why did everyone complain in the 1980's that it was too
> > > > > > difficult to understand and operate ??
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Allan Yates <allan@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You're welcome. My contribution was the scan of The Complete
> > > > > > DX7II. Everything else I found on other people's sites. I collected
> > > > > > all the info while repairing a friends unit. This is just my way of
> > > > > > giving back.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Allan.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > > > From: ***@yahoogroups.com [***@yahoogroups.com] on
> > > > > > behalf of Paul [paulseaman1@]
> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 5:07 PM
> > > > > > > To: ***@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > Subject: [YamahaDX] Re: Other DX7 books?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > WOW, lots of useful books on the Mr Yates site !! i just
> > > > > > downloaded a few. Look forward to reading them. THANKS !!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In ***@yahoogroups.com<mailto:YamahaDX > >
> > > > %40yahoogroups.com>, "rawl47" <rawl747@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Don't forget this great resource:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > http://yates.ca/dx7/
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Mr. Yates has a fair number of these titles already in
> > > > > > electronic format for your reading pleasure.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Plus some other useful technical information. Mr. Yates has had
> > > > > > his repository around for quite a few years...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > > > Rawl
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>

[Yvonne R]

Hi Paul,
I totally agree ... commitment and action are the two words that seem to be
missing from most peoples dictionaries ! If you look at the successful
people in the world ( no matter WHAT they are successful at ... the arts,
physical, money) you will see that they dedicated themselves to the task
... and, perhaps more importantly, actually DID IT !!

I wish I had a single penny for the number of people who will start
something "one day soon" ... and NEVER actually START !!!! "A journey of
a thousand miles starts with a single step" ... BUT you have GOT to make
that first step ... then follow it with another ... and another ... until
you get where you want to be.

The richest people on the planet have no more "smarts" than anybody else if
the truth be known .. .but they are open to ideas .. and they have two
massive attributes the overwhelming majority of us (including me )
lack ... the ability to start ... and the consistency of purpose ... THAT
combination is the irresistible force that can, indeed, move the item
others belive is the immovable object.

Many successful people, when asked if it was all "luck", tend to reply with
... " Oh yes ... I was very lucky ... and the more I practiced .... the
luckier I got ! "

The main problem the majority of us have is a complete lack of focus ... if
you want a demonstration of how powerful a focus can be ... take light ...
then make it a laser ! ... focused with direction ... when you have
that you are unstoppable.

As far as learning .. you are at the very begging if you realise you know
enough to know you don't know enough !! But be aware of becoming a
"specialist" they focus too much ... and become, eventually , totally
knowledgeable on a intensely small area ... that is great for a laser ...
but for real ability the knowledge is only half the equation ... the
ability to apply this great knowledge is the real power you need.

Always be open to ideas .. . new or old ! ... and try to incorporate them
into your quest and direction .. never discard ideas ... for tomorrow you
may just need that specific piece of information ...and it would be a shame
to miss it !

Remember the Western union turned down the patent for the telephone ....
the Beatles and the Rolling stones were both told they would not
succeed... and above all ... The ark was built by amateurs .. but the
Titanic was built by "professionals" ... !! ...

Honda say .. "The power of dreams" ... they are right ...

Yvonne



At 16:01 10/08/13 +0000, you wrote:
>Hi Yvonne,
>
>Yes, you are absolutely 100% correct. Whatever it is that you want to do
>you need to apply yourself and make a commitment. i always wanted to
>learn BOXING but it was not until i was in my late 30's that i plucked up
>the courage to join a gym and go !! All those years spent THINKING about
>it !! Anyway, i try and go once a week, i will NEVER be any good at it
>and i have always been useless at sport. But i go and i enjoy it (when
>its over !!) though it is just a bit of fun and will never ever lead
>anywhere. i do not have the talent or commitment, period.
>
>However, i was reading something recently and it was to do with a guy who
>was once asked the question "How LONG does it take to become proficient at
>a certain skill ??" (i think this guy was a successful
>sportsman). Anyway, he said that he had worked out that if a person spent
>8 x hours per day, for 3 x years (total 8,760 x hours) then they would
>become very good indeed and whatever the chosen skill was. It could be
>completely ANYTHING (ie programming a DX7 !!!), but more commonly it was
>used to help master a sport, musical instrument, learning a foreign
>language, etc. i think it was based on the fact that a college Degree
>course is 3 x years long and that the successful students had spent around
>8 x hours per day absorbing knowledge relavent to their field of
>study. So, thats 8,760 HOURS !!
>
>i have been spending a couple of hours per day for the last 6 x months
>trying to learn about Synthesis in general. i am getting better at
>understanding it but it is one of those topics were 'The more you learn,
>the more you realise there IS to learn' !! ha ha
>
>Paul
>
>
>
>
>--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Yvonne R <***@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Paul,
> > absolutely .. but I did say the majority, not all ! .. There will be the
> > few, the very few, who excel and that is what makes them the great names
> > they are ...
> >
> > The only problem then ... is the "designed by musicians" ... is for the
> few
> > not the many .. and its the many who buy and say its "difficult" to
> > programme ... ( most will not put the effort in ... but to get what you
> > want ... you have too)
> >
> > I managed to almost play reveille on a trumpet once ... and gave up ... as
> > I wanted to be a jazz musician .. it was not meant to be ... I just don't
> > have the patience ... but some do ... and the successful ones are very few
> > in number in any field ( not just music) .. these days I stick with making
> > a racket in my own home ... my days of being on stage with a guitar long
> > gone ... We were at a gig once and a chap came to the stage and said he
> > was from the "performing right society" and that they had received a
> > complaint ... we has what it was ... he stated we "weren't performing
> > right!!" I fear he was right even though it was meant to be a good
> > humored joke .. ( another of the band had set it up ) ..
> >
> > I now stick with my engineering ability and made mods for things ... Like
> > Range Rovers and other vehicle related items ..(currently making a memory
> > mod for my DX that will be internal and be like a multiple ram cart) ... I
> > can programme a little .. and save the public the pain of my performances
> > .. I am, at heart, a humanitarian .. I don't like to see people in pain
> > ... One day I will be rich and famous ... but, sadly, it will not be my
> > music that does it for me .. mind ... I am going deaf slowly ... so there
> > is time for me to write several symphonies yet ! lol !!
> >
> > I like playing with music ... I found the lost chord once ... but lost it
> > again ... fame ... so fickle ... gone in an instant!
> >
> > There is no substitute for knowledge ... but being able to apply it in a
> > practical fashion ... ... that's where the masters live !
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > At 15:03 10/08/13 +0000, you wrote:
> > >Hi Yvonne,
> > >
> > >Well (for me) the greatest keyboard players in the world have been Herbie
> > >Hancock, Joe Zawinul, and Chick Corea. Whatever synth is in their hands
> > >they make it their 'own'. The former two here are GENIOUS programers and
> > >use their synths to the full potential. And Zawinul worked closey with
> > >Korg to help develop its technology.
> > >
> > >i had often seen the type of advertising statement "Designed by musicians
> > >for musicians" and so collaborations must have existed in certain
> situations.
> > >
> > >
> > >Anyway, the people at the top of their game seem to be bloody good at
> > >EVERYTHING !! Hancock has always been very interseted in Science and he
> > >says that (the invention of) synths allowed him to make the bridge
> between
> > >the two fields of Music and Science.
> > >
> > >But on a more down-to-earth level, i have always known musicians to swing
> > >either towards being a 'player' or a 'programmer' for the most part.
> > >
> > >Paul
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Yvonne R <yvonne.rhodes@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > BUT is that a bad thing ?? People bought the Hammond for the "Hammond
> > > > sound" ... I guess they bought the DX for the "DX sound / special FX"
> > > >
> > > > People take a long time to actually try out most things ... Microsoft
> > > > proved that with Word ... they asked millions of users what they would
> > > like
> > > > to see in a future release of Word .. ... they got a ton of
> replies ...
> > > > and so went to work to find the most popular ... they never had to
> change
> > > > anything !!! ALL the requested features and functions were ALREADY
> in the
> > > > package ... !! People hardly ever use the technology they have to its
> > > full
> > > > potential .. yet buy new items to try and get a specific function ...
> > > when,
> > > > in the majority of cases, I suspect, they have the option in the
> kit they
> > > > have .. but just haven't looked into using it correctly.
> > > >
> > > > One of the main problems with technology, especially when applied to
> > > music,
> > > > is ... musicians are not engineers !! Sadly engineers are, on the most
> > > > part, not musicians ... yet to get the very best out of, say a DX, you
> > > > really need to be an engineer ... but to play it requires a good
> > > musician !!
> > > >
> > > > I used to be an engineer in Birmingham UK .. I worked for several
> of the
> > > > music shops ( several at the same time !!) .. I was asked to play a
> > > > Gulbranson organ once by the manager of one shop ... I told him I had a
> > > > better chance of flying to the moon from a standing start .... we
> asked my
> > > > why I could not play ... I replied with ... "so why can't you
> repair them
> > > > ?" .... he thought ... nodded ... and went out to play for the
> > > customer !
> > > > ...
> > > >
> > > > The same problem seems to be prevalent almost anywhere there is
> technology
> > > > ... the majority of programmers do not know how to be a given
> discipline
> > > > (Doctor, Lawyer ... etc) .. yet write the software the former have
> to use
> > > > ... and the former have no idea how to write the software !! Its
> a sad
> > > > fact of life that people don't (won't ? ) talk to each other a lot
> ... if
> > > > they did then maybe we would get software that people could use
> easily in
> > > > their given discipline instead of having to try and "think like the
> > > > programmer" that wrote it ! ..
> > > >
> > > > Given the above I am amazed there have been ANY useable electronic
> > > > instruments at all ! .. I suspect the engineers at the major makers
> > > are of
> > > > the opinion that the instruments are great ... except for the musicians
> > > > .. (much like a teacher who stated ... with all genuine honesty ...
> > > > "Colleges are wonderful ... apart from the students" !!)
> > > >
> > > > The saying "there is no 'I' in team" ... should apply here ..
> there needs
> > > > to be an engineer and a musician per instrument ! .. the musician
> > > coming up
> > > > with the ideas ... and the engineer making the ideas happen ...
> > > >
> > > > I wonder if THAT will ever happen ...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > At 14:15 10/08/13 +0000, you wrote:
> > > > >Thanks Jason,
> > > > >
> > > > >i understand now what you are saying.
> > > > >
> > > > >i watched a few You Tube interviews with semi-famous musicians of the
> > > > >1980's, and they said that throughout this period most of the
> 'pop' music
> > > > >records just used the PRESET sounds (or slight modifications of)
> because
> > > > >the average session musician found the synth too dificult to
> > > program. And
> > > > >as a result, you kept hearing all the SAME DX sounds on TV, films, and
> > > > >recordings !!
> > > > >
> > > > >Paul
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Jason Adkins <jason_ralf808@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Paul,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think people complained because it didn't have knobs and
> sliders and
> > > > > > it had operators and algorithm's and to be fair the original
> DX7 is a
> > > > > > pig to program which is why most musicians who could afford one
> just
> > > > > > used the presets and then bought sounds on rom carts.
> > > > > > The ultra rare programmer for the DX7 is silly money!
> > > > > > Talking of knobs and sliders,checkout the Korg 707 it has 4
> sliders,2
> > > > > > assignable to eg, only 4op but dirt cheap on craigslist/ebay
> and they
> > > > > > are better than most people think.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > J
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 10 Aug 2013, at 00:53, Paul wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > i was bidding on ebay on the Howard Massey book last week but got
> > > > > > > outbidded at the last minute (which was really annoying !!).
> So it
> > > > > > > is great to at least have a PDF copy of it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If there has been so much written about the DX7 (as seems the
> case
> > > > > > > here), then why did everyone complain in the 1980's that it
> was too
> > > > > > > difficult to understand and operate ??
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Allan Yates <allan@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You're welcome. My contribution was the scan of The Complete
> > > > > > > DX7II. Everything else I found on other people's sites. I
> collected
> > > > > > > all the info while repairing a friends unit. This is just my
> way of
> > > > > > > giving back.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Allan.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > > > > From: ***@yahoogroups.com [***@yahoogroups.com] on
> > > > > > > behalf of Paul [paulseaman1@]
> > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 5:07 PM
> > > > > > > > To: ***@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > Subject: [YamahaDX] Re: Other DX7 books?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > WOW, lots of useful books on the Mr Yates site !! i just
> > > > > > > downloaded a few. Look forward to reading them. THANKS !!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In ***@yahoogroups.com<mailto:YamahaDX > >
> > > > > %40yahoogroups.com>, "rawl47" <rawl747@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Don't forget this great resource:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > http://yates.ca/dx7/
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Mr. Yates has a fair number of these titles already in
> > > > > > > electronic format for your reading pleasure.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Plus some other useful technical information. Mr. Yates
> has had
> > > > > > > his repository around for quite a few years...
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > > > > Rawl
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >------------------------------------
> > >
> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Daniel Forró]

Yvonne,

those are golden words, words of wisdom! I know something about power
of concentration, focus, this is what we can learn from Japanese. That
zen philosophy is base of their success (but it also came from India
and China, it's not Japanese invention). I learn something new every
and each day.

And we have Honda.

Daniel Forro


On 11 Aug, 2013, at 1:28 AM, Yvonne R wrote:

>
>
> Hi Paul,
> I totally agree ... commitment and action are the two words that
> seem to be missing from most peoples dictionaries ! If you look
> at the successful people in the world ( no matter WHAT they are
> successful at ... the arts, physical, money) you will see that they
> dedicated themselves to the task ... and, perhaps more importantly,
> actually DID IT !!
>
> I wish I had a single penny for the number of people who will start
> something "one day soon" ... and NEVER actually START !!!! "A
> journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step" ... BUT you
> have GOT to make that first step ... then follow it with another ...
> and another ... until you get where you want to be.
>
> The richest people on the planet have no more "smarts" than anybody
> else if the truth be known .. .but they are open to ideas .. and
> they have two massive attributes the overwhelming majority of us
> (including me ) lack ... the ability to start ... and the
> consistency of purpose ... THAT combination is the irresistible
> force that can, indeed, move the item others belive is the immovable
> object.
>
> Many successful people, when asked if it was all "luck", tend to
> reply with ... " Oh yes ... I was very lucky ... and the more I
> practiced .... the luckier I got ! "
>
> The main problem the majority of us have is a complete lack of
> focus ... if you want a demonstration of how powerful a focus can
> be ... take light ... then make it a laser ! ... focused with
> direction ... when you have that you are unstoppable.
>
> As far as learning .. you are at the very begging if you realise you
> know enough to know you don't know enough !! But be aware of
> becoming a "specialist" they focus too much ... and become,
> eventually , totally knowledgeable on a intensely small area ...
> that is great for a laser ... but for real ability the knowledge is
> only half the equation ... the ability to apply this great knowledge
> is the real power you need.
>
> Always be open to ideas .. . new or old ! ... and try to incorporate
> them into your quest and direction .. never discard ideas ... for
> tomorrow you may just need that specific piece of information ...and
> it would be a shame to miss it !
>
> Remember the Western union turned down the patent for the
> telephone .... the Beatles and the Rolling stones were both told
> they would not succeed... and above all ... The ark was built by
> amateurs .. but the Titanic was built by "professionals" ... !! ...
>
> Honda say .. "The power of dreams" ... they are right ...
>
> Yvonne

[Paul]

Thanks a lot Yvonne,

Those were very thoughtful words.

As you say, basically there are TWO types of people :-

Those that DO, and those that TALK about it !!!!

The problem is, (and without wishing to sound depressing, making excuses, or deviating from the original subject of this thread) is that i USED TO have all the drive and commitment and everything else that you mention, PLUS MORE !!! But over the years (i am age 44 now) things happen in ones life and the vision that we once had becomes blurred, until it is almost invisible. i have seen it happen to many musicians before and when i was in my 20's i distinctly remember saying to myself " i will NEVER let that happen to me".

But gradually over time (for various reasons) i just seem to have ended up permanently stuck in a meaningless cul-de-sac. i did not think i would ever end up here because my whole life has been about music. But something(s) has gone seriously wrong along the way. i find it strange that i have ended up almost the complete OPPOSITE to how i always wanted to be. Its ironic !!

Paul



>
> Hi Paul,
> I totally agree ... commitment and action are the two words that seem to be
> missing from most peoples dictionaries ! If you look at the successful
> people in the world ( no matter WHAT they are successful at ... the arts,
> physical, money) you will see that they dedicated themselves to the task
> ... and, perhaps more importantly, actually DID IT !!
>
> I wish I had a single penny for the number of people who will start
> something "one day soon" ... and NEVER actually START !!!! "A journey of
> a thousand miles starts with a single step" ... BUT you have GOT to make
> that first step ... then follow it with another ... and another ... until
> you get where you want to be.
>

[jammie]

its because of complatency you get comfortable and then you forget your drive
as other life problem and dealing get in the way

ie kids and family

and working to make money

some people are just driven to make money like mosrt hiphop artist they make music just for money and not for music

and is the biggest problem with music today in that its hard to get a contract if you dont make the shit that the companies want you to make as they know it makes money

it happened to the beatles it happened to gearge micheal and many others

if you want to express your self musically today you have to release your own content and start your own label up

i try and do things every day that chalenge me be it pcb design circuit building sample creation preset making

and cooking


----- Original Message -----
From: Paul
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2013 6:42 PM
Subject: [YamahaDX] Re: Other DX7 books?



Thanks a lot Yvonne,

Those were very thoughtful words.

As you say, basically there are TWO types of people :-

Those that DO, and those that TALK about it !!!!

The problem is, (and without wishing to sound depressing, making excuses, or deviating from the original subject of this thread) is that i USED TO have all the drive and commitment and everything else that you mention, PLUS MORE !!! But over the years (i am age 44 now) things happen in ones life and the vision that we once had becomes blurred, until it is almost invisible. i have seen it happen to many musicians before and when i was in my 20's i distinctly remember saying to myself " i will NEVER let that happen to me".

But gradually over time (for various reasons) i just seem to have ended up permanently stuck in a meaningless cul-de-sac. i did not think i would ever end up here because my whole life has been about music. But something(s) has gone seriously wrong along the way. i find it strange that i have ended up almost the complete OPPOSITE to how i always wanted to be. Its ironic !!

Paul

>
> Hi Paul,
> I totally agree ... commitment and action are the two words that seem to be
> missing from most peoples dictionaries ! If you look at the successful
> people in the world ( no matter WHAT they are successful at ... the arts,
> physical, money) you will see that they dedicated themselves to the task
> ... and, perhaps more importantly, actually DID IT !!
>
> I wish I had a single penny for the number of people who will start
> something "one day soon" ... and NEVER actually START !!!! "A journey of
> a thousand miles starts with a single step" ... BUT you have GOT to make
> that first step ... then follow it with another ... and another ... until
> you get where you want to be.
>




No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3211/6567 - Release Date: 08/10/13

[Yvonne R]

Hi Paul,
you are not alone ... many of us are not what we once dreamed we would be
..... yet ..!

Did you know that, according to reports, a lot of multi millionaires did
not start their businesses until they were 70 ! By comparison I am a mere
young 'un .. granted I am in a cul-de-sac of my own right now .. not helped
at all by this recession that is not of our making ... but .. I hope to
get things sorted ... and leave the dead end rut ...

As long as I am alive I figure there is a chance it can change .. . why not ?

Are we a failure because we have not achieved our stated goals ... or are
we still learning ... and have not achieved yet .. .. I think its the
latter... as I tell may students ... there is no failure until you give up !

As Churchill said ... never, never, never, never give up !!

We can all say we have failed ... not achieved .. not got what we want
... but maybe we are still on the way ... perhaps we have to learn all
this and a little bit more .. after all the horse that wins by a nose is
not 100 times better than the 2nd place ... its just a nose ! ... but the
rewards are there for the taking ...

Consistency of purpose ... Napoleon Hill said ... and many others since ..

You're not beaten until you give up ... and as your such a young'un ... you
can't have got there yet ! you're too young ! lol !! ( me too !) ..

We can have what ever we desire ... but .. we have the biggest problem of
all to surmount ... to define what we actually want and are prepared to
exclude everything else for to get ! Many will never define THAT specific
goal ... and so they are doomed to failure ... only those who CAN totally
define their goal stand any chance of getting it ! How else could they
??? The Irish say "if you don't know where you are going .... any road will
do " .. and they are totally correct ...

You're not too old until they bury you ... it may be too late then ... just !

One of the biggest problems we, as humans, have is your brains ability to
love patterns ... habits are patterns .. if you go to work 5 days a week ..
there are times when you may show up on the 6th day ... by mistake ... or
habit ... What is a rut other than a well worn habit !

Many people call their rut a "comfort zone" ... they are used to it and,
moan as they may, they like it there ... its easy ... it saves thinking ..
( our one major extra over animals... who... oddly ... go for ruts in a big
way ... have you not heard of a rabbit run ? ) .. we should be able to
think ... but its easier not too ..

In the business world you can be the boss or work for one ... what is the
difference ? .. The boss will think and the rest will, like sheep, follow
and become "wage slaves" ... ruts are so friendly ... you know them well
.. but get out of the rut and life can be interesting and, in many ways,
new and exciting again.

Yvonne


At 17:42 10/08/13 +0000, you wrote:
>Thanks a lot Yvonne,
>
>Those were very thoughtful words.
>
>As you say, basically there are TWO types of people :-
>
>Those that DO, and those that TALK about it !!!!
>
>The problem is, (and without wishing to sound depressing, making excuses,
>or deviating from the original subject of this thread) is that i USED TO
>have all the drive and commitment and everything else that you mention,
>PLUS MORE !!! But over the years (i am age 44 now) things happen in ones
>life and the vision that we once had becomes blurred, until it is almost
>invisible. i have seen it happen to many musicians before and when i was
>in my 20's i distinctly remember saying to myself " i will NEVER let that
>happen to me".
>
>But gradually over time (for various reasons) i just seem to have ended up
>permanently stuck in a meaningless cul-de-sac. i did not think i would
>ever end up here because my whole life has been about music. But
>something(s) has gone seriously wrong along the way. i find it strange
>that i have ended up almost the complete OPPOSITE to how i always wanted
>to be. Its ironic !!
>
>Paul
>
>
>
> >
> > Hi Paul,
> > I totally agree ... commitment and action are the two words that seem
> to be
> > missing from most peoples dictionaries ! If you look at the successful
> > people in the world ( no matter WHAT they are successful at ... the arts,
> > physical, money) you will see that they dedicated themselves to the task
> > ... and, perhaps more importantly, actually DID IT !!
> >
> > I wish I had a single penny for the number of people who will start
> > something "one day soon" ... and NEVER actually START !!!! "A journey of
> > a thousand miles starts with a single step" ... BUT you have GOT to make
> > that first step ... then follow it with another ... and another ... until
> > you get where you want to be.
> >
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Francis Cote]

Words of wisdom Yvonne.

My wife and kids have been taking 95% of my free time for years. I'm
changing that slowly.
I started Kung Fu at 42.
I'm a highly skilled leader and software engineer, and I hate my job.

But I'm slowly changing that.

Like it was said, as long as i live, I won't stop.

Synths are the same! I spent so many hours programming every synth type,
but I don't have that time now nor the will as much.

That's life. Making music is not about synth programming, it's about a
passion, about life and about the sole.

So let's make more music, and less programming.

Francis
On 2013-08-10 2:47 PM, "Yvonne R" <***@googlemail.com> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Hi Paul,
> you are not alone ... many of us are not what we once dreamed we would be
> ..... yet ..!
>
> Did you know that, according to reports, a lot of multi millionaires did
> not start their businesses until they were 70 ! By comparison I am a mere
> young 'un .. granted I am in a cul-de-sac of my own right now .. not helped
> at all by this recession that is not of our making ... but .. I hope to
> get things sorted ... and leave the dead end rut ...
>
> As long as I am alive I figure there is a chance it can change .. . why
> not ?
>
> Are we a failure because we have not achieved our stated goals ... or are
> we still learning ... and have not achieved yet .. .. I think its the
> latter... as I tell may students ... there is no failure until you give up
> !
>
> As Churchill said ... never, never, never, never give up !!
>
> We can all say we have failed ... not achieved .. not got what we want
> ... but maybe we are still on the way ... perhaps we have to learn all
> this and a little bit more .. after all the horse that wins by a nose is
> not 100 times better than the 2nd place ... its just a nose ! ... but the
> rewards are there for the taking ...
>
> Consistency of purpose ... Napoleon Hill said ... and many others since ..
>
> You're not beaten until you give up ... and as your such a young'un ...
> you can't have got there yet ! you're too young ! lol !! ( me too !) ..
>
> We can have what ever we desire ... but .. we have the biggest problem of
> all to surmount ... to define what we actually want and are prepared to
> exclude everything else for to get ! Many will never define THAT specific
> goal ... and so they are doomed to failure ... only those who CAN totally
> define their goal stand any chance of getting it ! How else could they
> ??? The Irish say "if you don't know where you are going .... any road will
> do " .. and they are totally correct ...
>
> You're not too old until they bury you ... it may be too late then ...
> just !
>
> One of the biggest problems we, as humans, have is your brains ability to
> love patterns ... habits are patterns .. if you go to work 5 days a week ..
> there are times when you may show up on the 6th day ... by mistake ... or
> habit ... What is a rut other than a well worn habit !
>
> Many people call their rut a "comfort zone" ... they are used to it and,
> moan as they may, they like it there ... its easy ... it saves thinking ..
> ( our one major extra over animals... who... oddly ... go for ruts in a big
> way ... have you not heard of a rabbit run ? ) .. we should be able to
> think ... but its easier not too ..
>
> In the business world you can be the boss or work for one ... what is the
> difference ? .. The boss will think and the rest will, like sheep, follow
> and become "wage slaves" ... ruts are so friendly ... you know them well
> .. but get out of the rut and life can be interesting and, in many ways,
> new and exciting again.
>
> Yvonne
>
>
> At 17:42 10/08/13 +0000, you wrote:
>
> Thanks a lot Yvonne,
>
> Those were very thoughtful words.
>
> As you say, basically there are TWO types of people :-
>
> Those that DO, and those that TALK about it !!!!
>
> The problem is, (and without wishing to sound depressing, making excuses,
> or deviating from the original subject of this thread) is that i USED TO
> have all the drive and commitment and everything else that you mention,
> PLUS MORE !!! But over the years (i am age 44 now) things happen in ones
> life and the vision that we once had becomes blurred, until it is almost
> invisible. i have seen it happen to many musicians before and when i was
> in my 20's i distinctly remember saying to myself " i will NEVER let that
> happen to me".
>
> But gradually over time (for various reasons) i just seem to have ended up
> permanently stuck in a meaningless cul-de-sac. i did not think i would
> ever end up here because my whole life has been about music. But
> something(s) has gone seriously wrong along the way. i find it strange
> that i have ended up almost the complete OPPOSITE to how i always wanted to
> be. Its ironic !!
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> >
> > Hi Paul,
> > I totally agree ... commitment and action are the two words that seem to
> be
> > missing from most peoples dictionaries ! If you look at the
> successful
> > people in the world ( no matter WHAT they are successful at ... the
> arts,
> > physical, money) you will see that they dedicated themselves to the task
> > ... and, perhaps more importantly, actually DID IT !!
> >
> > I wish I had a single penny for the number of people who will start
> > something "one day soon" ... and NEVER actually START !!!! "A journey
> of
> > a thousand miles starts with a single step" ... BUT you have GOT to make
> > that first step ... then follow it with another ... and another ...
> until
> > you get where you want to be.
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

[Yvonne R]

Hi Francis,
You hate your job ... you are not alone there ... I suspect only
0.00000000001% of people REALLY like their job .. But the Chinese did say
... "if you get a job you love .... you will never work in your life"
.. Its true .. I love to teach, or, more accurately, provide a learning
environment for students to grow. But I can not get a half decent wage ...
these days I can not even get a position !

Life, to be acceptable, needs balance ... as simple as that ... like the
synth .. the programming is the one part .. the other is playing ... OK
there is a lot of overlap .. but the general idea is sound .. its like a
hobby and earning money ... if you are lucky they will be different things
.. I am a scuba diver ... I am also an instructor ... but I can't stand it
as a job !

The band Dire Straights seem to have got it right ... they do the
commercial stuff ... it sells .. they make money ... THEN they can do the
stuff they like ... and some of that is just soooooooo good ! Sometimes
the good stuff sells and they are onto a real winner ... but they can have
fun and do what they like as the commercial items pay the way ... balance
... commercial for the bills ... then the fun stuff later ..

Starting Kung Fu at 42 ... Interesting ... I bet you have a lot of warming
up and flexibility exercises to do ... none of us is as flexible as we get
older ... I am not .. that's for sure ... but I bet you are enjoying it a
lot !

We are mostly creatures of habit as I said earlier ... but we also like a
challenge .. ( our brains are weird that way ... opposites and all that)
.. so a sport like Kung Fu ( or Karate) .. is a real challenge for the
young ... even more so as the years progress ... BUT ... once you get to a
decent level it will help you stay fitter than most of your counterparts
who are couch potatoes !

Our lives are killing us ... we have technology to do most things ... we do
not even need to change gear in the car ! .. automatic everything ... ( the
ultimate in lazy has got to be a remote control for a radio in the dash !!
) we hardly have to use a calorie these days .. yet we eat as though we
are going to war tomorrow !

The latest research, and you're not going to like this, says sitting, like
now in front of a computer, is the worst thing you can do .. and even just
standing up is of great benefit !

We are evolving into blobs ! So any physical exercise has got to be good
... well done on the Kung Fu .. more power to you ..

Making music is a left side of the brain activity ... its creative ... and
it helps balance ( there is that word again) the disciplines of work life
... where creativity is not exactly encouraged.

Yvonne



At 14:59 10/08/13 -0400, you wrote:


>Words of wisdom Yvonne.
>
>My wife and kids have been taking 95% of my free time for years. I'm
>changing that slowly.
>I started Kung Fu at 42.
>I'm a highly skilled leader and software engineer, and I hate my job.
>
>But I'm slowly changing that.
>
>Like it was said, as long as i live, I won't stop.
>
>Synths are the same! I spent so many hours programming every synth type,
>but I don't have that time now nor the will as much.
>
>That's life. Making music is not about synth programming, it's about a
>passion, about life and about the sole.
>
>So let's make more music, and less programming.
>
>Francis
>On 2013-08-10 2:47 PM, "Yvonne R"
><<mailto:***@googlemail.com>***@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>
>Hi Paul,
>you are not alone ... many of us are not what we once dreamed we would be
>..... yet ..!
>
>Did you know that, according to reports, a lot of multi millionaires did
>not start their businesses until they were 70 ! By comparison I am a mere
>young 'un .. granted I am in a cul-de-sac of my own right now .. not
>helped at all by this recession that is not of our making ... but .. I
>hope to get things sorted ... and leave the dead end rut ...
>
>As long as I am alive I figure there is a chance it can change .. . why not ?
>
>Are we a failure because we have not achieved our stated goals ... or are
>we still learning ... and have not achieved yet .. .. I think its the
>latter... as I tell may students ... there is no failure until you give up !
>
>As Churchill said ... never, never, never, never give up !!
>
>We can all say we have failed ... not achieved .. not got what we want
>... but maybe we are still on the way ... perhaps we have to learn all
>this and a little bit more .. after all the horse that wins by a nose is
>not 100 times better than the 2nd place ... its just a nose ! ... but the
>rewards are there for the taking ...
>
>Consistency of purpose ... Napoleon Hill said ... and many others since ..
>
>You're not beaten until you give up ... and as your such a young'un ...
>you can't have got there yet ! you're too young ! lol !! ( me too !) ..
>
>We can have what ever we desire ... but .. we have the biggest problem of
>all to surmount ... to define what we actually want and are prepared to
>exclude everything else for to get ! Many will never define THAT
>specific goal ... and so they are doomed to failure ... only those who CAN
>totally define their goal stand any chance of getting it ! How else
>could they ??? The Irish say "if you don't know where you are going ....
>any road will do " .. and they are totally correct ...
>
>You're not too old until they bury you ... it may be too late then ... just !
>
>One of the biggest problems we, as humans, have is your brains ability to
>love patterns ... habits are patterns .. if you go to work 5 days a week
>.. there are times when you may show up on the 6th day ... by mistake ...
>or habit ... What is a rut other than a well worn habit !
>
>Many people call their rut a "comfort zone" ... they are used to it and,
>moan as they may, they like it there ... its easy ... it saves thinking ..
>( our one major extra over animals... who... oddly ... go for ruts in a
>big way ... have you not heard of a rabbit run ? ) .. we should be able to
>think ... but its easier not too ..
>
>In the business world you can be the boss or work for one ... what is the
>difference ? .. The boss will think and the rest will, like sheep, follow
>and become "wage slaves" ... ruts are so friendly ... you know them well
>.. but get out of the rut and life can be interesting and, in many ways,
>new and exciting again.
>
>Yvonne
>
>
>At 17:42 10/08/13 +0000, you wrote:
>>Thanks a lot Yvonne,
>>
>>Those were very thoughtful words.
>>
>>As you say, basically there are TWO types of people :-
>>
>>Those that DO, and those that TALK about it !!!!
>>
>>The problem is, (and without wishing to sound depressing, making excuses,
>>or deviating from the original subject of this thread) is that i USED TO
>>have all the drive and commitment and everything else that you mention,
>>PLUS MORE !!! But over the years (i am age 44 now) things happen in ones
>>life and the vision that we once had becomes blurred, until it is almost
>>invisible. i have seen it happen to many musicians before and when i was
>>in my 20's i distinctly remember saying to myself " i will NEVER let that
>>happen to me".
>>
>>But gradually over time (for various reasons) i just seem to have ended
>>up permanently stuck in a meaningless cul-de-sac. i did not think i
>>would ever end up here because my whole life has been about music. But
>>something(s) has gone seriously wrong along the way. i find it strange
>>that i have ended up almost the complete OPPOSITE to how i always wanted
>>to be. Its ironic !!
>>
>>Paul
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Hi Paul,
>> > I totally agree ... commitment and action are the two words that seem
>> to be
>> > missing from most peoples dictionaries ! If you look at the successful
>> > people in the world ( no matter WHAT they are successful at ... the arts,
>> > physical, money) you will see that they dedicated themselves to the task
>> > ... and, perhaps more importantly, actually DID IT !!
>> >
>> > I wish I had a single penny for the number of people who will start
>> > something "one day soon" ... and NEVER actually START !!!! "A
>> journey of
>> > a thousand miles starts with a single step" ... BUT you have GOT to make
>> > that first step ... then follow it with another ... and another ... until
>> > you get where you want to be.
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>------------------------------------
>>
>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>> (Yahoo! ID required)
>>
>><mailto:YamahaDX-***@yahoogroups.com>YamahaDX-***@yahoogroups.com
>>
>>
>
>
>

[Francis Cote]

Our way of life is really killing us.
I'm following this thread, standing up in the mall on my smart phone. I
oftenly use keyboards standing up, in my workspace, I like it. I play
guitar, bass or sing all standing up.
I have this need to compensate for the bad positions we have at work.

As for Kung fu, it's not easy... But it keeps me from the pain caused by
arthreosis in my spine and elsewhere. When I started 2 years ago, I thought
I would die after the 4th push-up, I can do 100 now plus another good 40
Chinese push-ups in a session.
Like in anything, persistence and will is key.

Francis

On 2013-08-10 3:22 PM, "Yvonne R" <***@googlemail.com> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Hi Francis,
> You hate your job ... you are not alone there ... I suspect only
> 0.00000000001% of people REALLY like their job .. But the Chinese did say
> ... "if you get a job you love .... you will never work in your life" ..
> Its true .. I love to teach, or, more accurately, provide a learning
> environment for students to grow. But I can not get a half decent wage ...
> these days I can not even get a position !
>
> Life, to be acceptable, needs balance ... as simple as that ... like the
> synth .. the programming is the one part .. the other is playing ... OK
> there is a lot of overlap .. but the general idea is sound .. its like a
> hobby and earning money ... if you are lucky they will be different things
> .. I am a scuba diver ... I am also an instructor ... but I can't stand it
> as a job !
>
> The band Dire Straights seem to have got it right ... they do the
> commercial stuff ... it sells .. they make money ... THEN they can do the
> stuff they like ... and some of that is just soooooooo good ! Sometimes
> the good stuff sells and they are onto a real winner ... but they can have
> fun and do what they like as the commercial items pay the way ... balance
> ... commercial for the bills ... then the fun stuff later ..
>
> Starting Kung Fu at 42 ... Interesting ... I bet you have a lot of warming
> up and flexibility exercises to do ... none of us is as flexible as we get
> older ... I am not .. that's for sure ... but I bet you are enjoying it a
> lot !
>
> We are mostly creatures of habit as I said earlier ... but we also like a
> challenge .. ( our brains are weird that way ... opposites and all that)
> .. so a sport like Kung Fu ( or Karate) .. is a real challenge for the
> young ... even more so as the years progress ... BUT ... once you get to a
> decent level it will help you stay fitter than most of your counterparts
> who are couch potatoes !
>
> Our lives are killing us ... we have technology to do most things ... we
> do not even need to change gear in the car ! .. automatic everything ... (
> the ultimate in lazy has got to be a remote control for a radio in the dash
> !! ) we hardly have to use a calorie these days .. yet we eat as though we
> are going to war tomorrow !
>
> The latest research, and you're not going to like this, says sitting, like
> now in front of a computer, is the worst thing you can do .. and even just
> standing up is of great benefit !
>
> We are evolving into blobs ! So any physical exercise has got to be good
> ... well done on the Kung Fu .. more power to you ..
>
> Making music is a left side of the brain activity ... its creative ... and
> it helps balance ( there is that word again) the disciplines of work life
> ... where creativity is not exactly encouraged.
>
> Yvonne
>
>
>
> At 14:59 10/08/13 -0400, you wrote:
>
>
> Words of wisdom Yvonne.
>
> My wife and kids have been taking 95% of my free time for years. I'm
> changing that slowly.
> I started Kung Fu at 42.
> I'm a highly skilled leader and software engineer, and I hate my job.
>
> But I'm slowly changing that.
>
> Like it was said, as long as i live, I won't stop.
>
> Synths are the same! I spent so many hours programming every synth type,
> but I don't have that time now nor the will as much.
>
> That's life. Making music is not about synth programming, it's about a
> passion, about life and about the sole.
>
> So let's make more music, and less programming.
>
> Francis
> On 2013-08-10 2:47 PM, "Yvonne R" <***@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi Paul,
> you are not alone ... many of us are not what we once dreamed we would be
> ..... yet ..!
>
> Did you know that, according to reports, a lot of multi millionaires did
> not start their businesses until they were 70 ! By comparison I am a mere
> young 'un .. granted I am in a cul-de-sac of my own right now .. not helped
> at all by this recession that is not of our making ... but .. I hope to
> get things sorted ... and leave the dead end rut ...
>
> As long as I am alive I figure there is a chance it can change .. . why
> not ?
>
> Are we a failure because we have not achieved our stated goals ... or are
> we still learning ... and have not achieved yet .. .. I think its the
> latter... as I tell may students ... there is no failure until you give up
> !
>
> As Churchill said ... never, never, never, never give up !!
>
> We can all say we have failed ... not achieved .. not got what we want
> ... but maybe we are still on the way ... perhaps we have to learn all
> this and a little bit more .. after all the horse that wins by a nose is
> not 100 times better than the 2nd place ... its just a nose ! ... but the
> rewards are there for the taking ...
>
> Consistency of purpose ... Napoleon Hill said ... and many others since ..
>
> You're not beaten until you give up ... and as your such a young'un ...
> you can't have got there yet ! you're too young ! lol !! ( me too !) ..
>
> We can have what ever we desire ... but .. we have the biggest problem of
> all to surmount ... to define what we actually want and are prepared to
> exclude everything else for to get ! Many will never define THAT specific
> goal ... and so they are doomed to failure ... only those who CAN totally
> define their goal stand any chance of getting it ! How else could they
> ??? The Irish say "if you don't know where you are going .... any road will
> do " .. and they are totally correct ...
>
> You're not too old until they bury you ... it may be too late then ...
> just !
>
> One of the biggest problems we, as humans, have is your brains ability to
> love patterns ... habits are patterns .. if you go to work 5 days a week ..
> there are times when you may show up on the 6th day ... by mistake ... or
> habit ... What is a rut other than a well worn habit !
>
> Many people call their rut a "comfort zone" ... they are used to it and,
> moan as they may, they like it there ... its easy ... it saves thinking ..
> ( our one major extra over animals... who... oddly ... go for ruts in a big
> way ... have you not heard of a rabbit run ? ) .. we should be able to
> think ... but its easier not too ..
>
> In the business world you can be the boss or work for one ... what is the
> difference ? .. The boss will think and the rest will, like sheep, follow
> and become "wage slaves" ... ruts are so friendly ... you know them well
> .. but get out of the rut and life can be interesting and, in many ways,
> new and exciting again.
>
> Yvonne
>
>
> At 17:42 10/08/13 +0000, you wrote:
>
> Thanks a lot Yvonne,
>
> Those were very thoughtful words.
>
> As you say, basically there are TWO types of people :-
>
> Those that DO, and those that TALK about it !!!!
>
> The problem is, (and without wishing to sound depressing, making excuses,
> or deviating from the original subject of this thread) is that i USED TO
> have all the drive and commitment and everything else that you mention,
> PLUS MORE !!! But over the years (i am age 44 now) things happen in ones
> life and the vision that we once had becomes blurred, until it is almost
> invisible. i have seen it happen to many musicians before and when i was
> in my 20's i distinctly remember saying to myself " i will NEVER let that
> happen to me".
>
> But gradually over time (for various reasons) i just seem to have ended up
> permanently stuck in a meaningless cul-de-sac. i did not think i would
> ever end up here because my whole life has been about music. But
> something(s) has gone seriously wrong along the way. i find it strange
> that i have ended up almost the complete OPPOSITE to how i always wanted to
> be. Its ironic !!
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> >
> > Hi Paul,
> > I totally agree ... commitment and action are the two words that seem to
> be
> > missing from most peoples dictionaries ! If you look at the
> successful
> > people in the world ( no matter WHAT they are successful at ... the
> arts,
> > physical, money) you will see that they dedicated themselves to the task
> > ... and, perhaps more importantly, actually DID IT !!
> >
> > I wish I had a single penny for the number of people who will start
> > something "one day soon" ... and NEVER actually START !!!! "A journey
> of
> > a thousand miles starts with a single step" ... BUT you have GOT to make
> > that first step ... then follow it with another ... and another ...
> until
> > you get where you want to be.
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Paul]

Thats really great man,

The fitness route is definately the way forward. It will help you in more ways than you can ever imagine. i only got into it aged 36 and only regret not taking it up many years ago. i am very impressed with your progress !!

Paul


--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Francis Cote <***@...> wrote:

> As for Kung fu, it's not easy... But it keeps me from the pain caused by
> arthreosis in my spine and elsewhere. When I started 2 years ago, I thought
> I would die after the 4th push-up, I can do 100 now plus another good 40
> Chinese push-ups in a session.
> Like in anything, persistence and will is key.
>
> Francis

[jammie]

i have been doing chi gung for 20+ years i did mua tai and mixed martial arts that i still do i have had the privelidge of doing training with mo teege jkd and eval dentan tom ashe muai tai
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=566269783430596&set=a.562292607161647.1073741825.100001427394707&type=1&relevant_count=1&ref=nf

who was my personal trainer and cage fighter trainer before my sholder operation

life is good for those who apply them selves

----- Original Message -----


From: Paul
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2013 3:03 AM
Subject: [YamahaDX] Re: Other DX7 books?



Thats really great man,

The fitness route is definately the way forward. It will help you in more ways than you can ever imagine. i only got into it aged 36 and only regret not taking it up many years ago. i am very impressed with your progress !!

Paul

--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Francis Cote <***@...> wrote:

> As for Kung fu, it's not easy... But it keeps me from the pain caused by
> arthreosis in my spine and elsewhere. When I started 2 years ago, I thought
> I would die after the 4th push-up, I can do 100 now plus another good 40
> Chinese push-ups in a session.
> Like in anything, persistence and will is key.
>
> Francis




No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3211/6567 - Release Date: 08/10/13

[Paul]

Thank you Yvonne,

The best way i can put it is that up until about 10 x years ago (a couple of years after i graduated from studying at music college for five years), i had no doubt whatsoever in my mind that i was born to be a musician. i do not mean to sound pretentious here at all but i am just trying to illustrate my point. i turned pro aged 17 working on ships and in hotels etc, but my main love was transcribing Chick Corea and Miles Davis (etc) recordings. Basically, the whole future was music for me and i could see nothing getting in the way. i had problems with alcohol and substances but managed to clean myself up and have stayed completely off them for many years now. i also decided to NEVER get married and have children. And whilst at college i practiced and transcribed 6 to 8 hours per day (even Xmas day a few times !!). My DIRECTION was clear and i felt that as long as i made the required sacrifices and put in all the dedicated work and commitment, then i would be rewarded with some kind of success in my field. Though at the same time i was not doing it for financial reward or any such gain, but just the feeling of being driven and getting better and better. And it was a GREAT feeling because i felt very liberated ahving found my so called destiny.

But it just has not turned out how i expected and so for the last five years or so i have totally lost the drive and interest in so many musically related things. In fact its got so bad now that i feel guilty because i think i have failed both myself and those around me (like my college tutors etc). Its really not a good place to be thats for sure. And i just can not see a way out of it.

Personal health problems have also played a part, but there are many people who are very successful in their chosen field with severe disabillities of which they manage to transcend.

So, thats my situation. Can't believe i am discussing this online here but this site does seem to have many trustworthy and experienced musicians in its community.

Ta,

Paul



--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Yvonne R <***@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Paul,
> you are not alone ... many of us are not what we once dreamed we would be
> ..... yet ..!
>
> Did you know that, according to reports, a lot of multi millionaires did
> not start their businesses until they were 70 ! By comparison I am a mere
> young 'un .. granted I am in a cul-de-sac of my own right now .. not helped
> at all by this recession that is not of our making ... but .. I hope to
> get things sorted ... and leave the dead end rut ...
>
> As long as I am alive I figure there is a chance it can change .. . why not ?
>
> Are we a failure because we have not achieved our stated goals ... or are
> we still learning ... and have not achieved yet .. .. I think its the
> latter... as I tell may students ... there is no failure until you give up !
>
> As Churchill said ... never, never, never, never give up !!
>
> We can all say we have failed ... not achieved .. not got what we want
> ... but maybe we are still on the way ... perhaps we have to learn all
> this and a little bit more .. after all the horse that wins by a nose is
> not 100 times better than the 2nd place ... its just a nose ! ... but the
> rewards are there for the taking ...
>
> Consistency of purpose ... Napoleon Hill said ... and many others since ..
>
> You're not beaten until you give up ... and as your such a young'un ... you
> can't have got there yet ! you're too young ! lol !! ( me too !) ..
>
> We can have what ever we desire ... but .. we have the biggest problem of
> all to surmount ... to define what we actually want and are prepared to
> exclude everything else for to get ! Many will never define THAT specific
> goal ... and so they are doomed to failure ... only those who CAN totally
> define their goal stand any chance of getting it ! How else could they
> ??? The Irish say "if you don't know where you are going .... any road will
> do " .. and they are totally correct ...
>
> You're not too old until they bury you ... it may be too late then ... just !
>
> One of the biggest problems we, as humans, have is your brains ability to
> love patterns ... habits are patterns .. if you go to work 5 days a week ..
> there are times when you may show up on the 6th day ... by mistake ... or
> habit ... What is a rut other than a well worn habit !
>
> Many people call their rut a "comfort zone" ... they are used to it and,
> moan as they may, they like it there ... its easy ... it saves thinking ..
> ( our one major extra over animals... who... oddly ... go for ruts in a big
> way ... have you not heard of a rabbit run ? ) .. we should be able to
> think ... but its easier not too ..
>
> In the business world you can be the boss or work for one ... what is the
> difference ? .. The boss will think and the rest will, like sheep, follow
> and become "wage slaves" ... ruts are so friendly ... you know them well
> .. but get out of the rut and life can be interesting and, in many ways,
> new and exciting again.
>
> Yvonne
>

[Yvonne R]

Hi Paul,
so you did all that work ... but what was the target ? the goal ? the real
end thing you totally wanted that has, apparently, now changed ? Or was
it that the work so far ( you're not quite dead yet ..) .. is but the
"training" for the best that is yet to come ?

You say "my main love" ... not my main "direction" while there is a lot of
good, hard and dedicated work you have done ... what was the aim of it all
? Was there one ? or , as with most of us, did you do what you loved and
get sidetracked a lot ... and now find your self in a siding while others
pass you by ? ... Do others pass you by ? are they even going in the same
direction .. ?

"the whole future was music for me" ... a wide brief to say the least ...
Music is a massive field and to be, say a leading Jazz trumpeter, takes
most of your life to master.

Focus is the key ... I feel that you have probably only done the ground
work so far ( though it may not seem it with the amount of work you have
done) .. and that given the experience you now have ... and a direction
(focused ) to go for .. the next part of the journey may well be easier
than you think ! But you have to choose what it is to be ..

What has changed to make you feel that "But it just has not turned out how
i expected" ?

As for personal health problems ... you are still alive ! That has got to
be a bonus as a lot of "successful" musicians ... are now dead ! (Victims
of their success). As I get older I have noticed that my "little black
book" only has names starting with "Dr" in it these days ... Gone are the
heady days of my youth ( in physical form .. though I am young at heart) I
now know a Dr for almost every part of my body ! I am now far more
knowledgeable about the human form than I ever thought I would be as most
of it seem to be playing up at one point or another !

Yes there are people with worse conditions than both of us, take Dr Stephen
Hawking ... hes got a brain that will not stop ... and hes doing more from
his chair than most people, who are fit enough to win the Olympics, will
ever do .. hes even been on Star Trek !! It could be said its BECAUSE of
his physical limitations that he is so smart ... he did not really have the
option to go and play football or any other physical sport ... so
concentrated on his strength ... a brain ... and he has worked it very hard
.. more power to him .. Focus is the name of the game ..

The situation you are in is, I am sorry to say, not unique to you ... (
though that will not help the way you feel about it ) .. I am qualified in
many areas ...I started gaining these qualifications a few years back ...
at one point 12 in a year !! ( focus ... ) ... but ... they have proved
somewhat useless as I can not seem to get a job anywhere .. and have even
been told I am "over qualified" !!

I see my self as a massive resource for any company, with a wealth of
experience and the ability to think "out of the box" as they put it .. yet
... no position I apply for is to be mine ... even with my knowledge I can
not fathom why this is ! But its their loss .. I just wish I could get a
paying position to fund my desires ...

Hey ho ... we all have our cross to bear ..
Yvonne



At 01:49 11/08/13 +0000, you wrote:
>Thank you Yvonne,
>
>The best way i can put it is that up until about 10 x years ago (a couple
>of years after i graduated from studying at music college for five years),
>i had no doubt whatsoever in my mind that i was born to be a musician. i
>do not mean to sound pretentious here at all but i am just trying to
>illustrate my point. i turned pro aged 17 working on ships and in hotels
>etc, but my main love was transcribing Chick Corea and Miles Davis (etc)
>recordings. Basically, the whole future was music for me and i could see
>nothing getting in the way. i had problems with alcohol and substances
>but managed to clean myself up and have stayed completely off them for
>many years now. i also decided to NEVER get married and have
>children. And whilst at college i practiced and transcribed 6 to 8 hours
>per day (even Xmas day a few times !!). My DIRECTION was clear and i felt
>that as long as i made the required sacrifices and put in all the
>dedicated work and commitment, then i would be rewarded with some kind of
>success in my field. Though at the same time i was not doing it for
>financial reward or any such gain, but just the feeling of being driven
>and getting better and better. And it was a GREAT feeling because i felt
>very liberated ahving found my so called destiny.
>
>But it just has not turned out how i expected and so for the last five
>years or so i have totally lost the drive and interest in so many
>musically related things. In fact its got so bad now that i feel guilty
>because i think i have failed both myself and those around me (like my
>college tutors etc). Its really not a good place to be thats for
>sure. And i just can not see a way out of it.
>
>Personal health problems have also played a part, but there are many
>people who are very successful in their chosen field with severe
>disabillities of which they manage to transcend.
>
>So, thats my situation. Can't believe i am discussing this online here
>but this site does seem to have many trustworthy and experienced musicians
>in its community.
>
>Ta,
>
>Paul
>
>
>
>--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Yvonne R <***@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Paul,
> > you are not alone ... many of us are not what we once dreamed we would be
> > ..... yet ..!
> >
> > Did you know that, according to reports, a lot of multi millionaires did
> > not start their businesses until they were 70 ! By comparison I am a mere
> > young 'un .. granted I am in a cul-de-sac of my own right now .. not
> helped
> > at all by this recession that is not of our making ... but .. I hope to
> > get things sorted ... and leave the dead end rut ...
> >
> > As long as I am alive I figure there is a chance it can change .. . why
> not ?
> >
> > Are we a failure because we have not achieved our stated goals ... or are
> > we still learning ... and have not achieved yet .. .. I think its the
> > latter... as I tell may students ... there is no failure until you give
> up !
> >
> > As Churchill said ... never, never, never, never give up !!
> >
> > We can all say we have failed ... not achieved .. not got what we want
> > ... but maybe we are still on the way ... perhaps we have to learn all
> > this and a little bit more .. after all the horse that wins by a nose is
> > not 100 times better than the 2nd place ... its just a nose ! ... but the
> > rewards are there for the taking ...
> >
> > Consistency of purpose ... Napoleon Hill said ... and many others since ..
> >
> > You're not beaten until you give up ... and as your such a young'un ...
> you
> > can't have got there yet ! you're too young ! lol !! ( me too !) ..
> >
> > We can have what ever we desire ... but .. we have the biggest problem of
> > all to surmount ... to define what we actually want and are prepared to
> > exclude everything else for to get ! Many will never define THAT
> specific
> > goal ... and so they are doomed to failure ... only those who CAN totally
> > define their goal stand any chance of getting it ! How else could they
> > ??? The Irish say "if you don't know where you are going .... any road
> will
> > do " .. and they are totally correct ...
> >
> > You're not too old until they bury you ... it may be too late then ...
> just !
> >
> > One of the biggest problems we, as humans, have is your brains ability to
> > love patterns ... habits are patterns .. if you go to work 5 days a
> week ..
> > there are times when you may show up on the 6th day ... by mistake ... or
> > habit ... What is a rut other than a well worn habit !
> >
> > Many people call their rut a "comfort zone" ... they are used to it and,
> > moan as they may, they like it there ... its easy ... it saves thinking ..
> > ( our one major extra over animals... who... oddly ... go for ruts in a
> big
> > way ... have you not heard of a rabbit run ? ) .. we should be able to
> > think ... but its easier not too ..
> >
> > In the business world you can be the boss or work for one ... what is the
> > difference ? .. The boss will think and the rest will, like sheep, follow
> > and become "wage slaves" ... ruts are so friendly ... you know them well
> > .. but get out of the rut and life can be interesting and, in many ways,
> > new and exciting again.
> >
> > Yvonne
> >
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Paul]

Hi Yvonne,

Thanks very much for the kind reply.

The 'direction' definately started disappearing when i left college. Up until that point i had felt like i was on a clearly defined path. Whilst a college i had some EXCELLENT tutors and i learned so much from them.

i made the jump and moved to London but did not manage to break-in at all to anything significant. i did teaching and regular gigs (like cocktail-piano etc) and did so for the 6 x years i was there. But i ended up in a rut, depressed and in the end moving back home and more or less giving up. London is VERY hard as there are so many good players and everything is a closed-shop. Yes, many people are successful of course, but after giving it 6 x years i just had to admit to myself that it was time to call it a day. On the POSITIVE side, at least i can say i did go to college and move to London giving it 110%, and as we were talking about earlier, i was not one of those people who sat around just talking about it !!

So now my playing and other music skills have just deteriorated so much as a result of this. i feel like it's all over now and i am just sitting around waiting to retire. In a lot of ways i don't even feel like a 'musician' anymore !! i used to think that maybe i had put so much effort into music that i had actually burned out the desire to be interested in it anymore !! A few people have said to me that its good to have a break from music now and again and to do something different for a while. But as i say, the hunger and desire i once had has disappeard ?? i could gone on, but its too depressing !!

So anyway, i did a lot of long thinking about this (because its obviously quite worrying) and i was trying to work out if i could find some aspect of music (however small) which might re-inspire me (or at least keep me interested). So i thought about how i have always struggled with the maths/physics side of music (in a massive way !!) hence me joining this site a few months ago. And also i purchased Cubase last year which i am trying to learn from scratch. Both of these topics are very new to me because although i could/should have learned them earlier in life, i was way too busy concentrating on other aspects such as Composing/Arranging/Transcribing etc......

The ultimate goal (since i was in my teens) was to be a successful jazz pianist. And that was it really, simple !! Nothing else ever really interested me so you could say that i had a 'one track mind'. i never understood how someone could have lots of DIFFERENT interests and hobbies. And i never understood how musicians could treat music like a JOB (in that they only think about music whilst they are performing on stage and have no interest in it elsewhere).

Not sure if that has answered you questions or not ??

Thanks,

Paul




--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Yvonne R <***@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Paul,
> so you did all that work ... but what was the target ? the goal ? the real
> end thing you totally wanted that has, apparently, now changed ? Or was
> it that the work so far ( you're not quite dead yet ..) .. is but the
> "training" for the best that is yet to come ?
>
> You say "my main love" ... not my main "direction" while there is a lot of
> good, hard and dedicated work you have done ... what was the aim of it all
> ? Was there one ? or , as with most of us, did you do what you loved and
> get sidetracked a lot ... and now find your self in a siding while others
> pass you by ? ... Do others pass you by ? are they even going in the same
> direction .. ?
>
> "the whole future was music for me" ... a wide brief to say the least ...
> Music is a massive field and to be, say a leading Jazz trumpeter, takes
> most of your life to master.
>
> Focus is the key ... I feel that you have probably only done the ground
> work so far ( though it may not seem it with the amount of work you have
> done) .. and that given the experience you now have ... and a direction
> (focused ) to go for .. the next part of the journey may well be easier
> than you think ! But you have to choose what it is to be ..
>
> What has changed to make you feel that "But it just has not turned out how
> i expected" ?
>
> As for personal health problems ... you are still alive ! That has got to
> be a bonus as a lot of "successful" musicians ... are now dead ! (Victims
> of their success). As I get older I have noticed that my "little black
> book" only has names starting with "Dr" in it these days ... Gone are the
> heady days of my youth ( in physical form .. though I am young at heart) I
> now know a Dr for almost every part of my body ! I am now far more
> knowledgeable about the human form than I ever thought I would be as most
> of it seem to be playing up at one point or another !
>
> Yes there are people with worse conditions than both of us, take Dr Stephen
> Hawking ... hes got a brain that will not stop ... and hes doing more from
> his chair than most people, who are fit enough to win the Olympics, will
> ever do .. hes even been on Star Trek !! It could be said its BECAUSE of
> his physical limitations that he is so smart ... he did not really have the
> option to go and play football or any other physical sport ... so
> concentrated on his strength ... a brain ... and he has worked it very hard
> .. more power to him .. Focus is the name of the game ..
>
> The situation you are in is, I am sorry to say, not unique to you ... (
> though that will not help the way you feel about it ) .. I am qualified in
> many areas ...I started gaining these qualifications a few years back ...
> at one point 12 in a year !! ( focus ... ) ... but ... they have proved
> somewhat useless as I can not seem to get a job anywhere .. and have even
> been told I am "over qualified" !!
>
> I see my self as a massive resource for any company, with a wealth of
> experience and the ability to think "out of the box" as they put it .. yet
> ... no position I apply for is to be mine ... even with my knowledge I can
> not fathom why this is ! But its their loss .. I just wish I could get a
> paying position to fund my desires ...
>
> Hey ho ... we all have our cross to bear ..
> Yvonne
>
>
>
> At 01:49 11/08/13 +0000, you wrote:
> >Thank you Yvonne,
> >
> >The best way i can put it is that up until about 10 x years ago (a couple
> >of years after i graduated from studying at music college for five years),
> >i had no doubt whatsoever in my mind that i was born to be a musician. i
> >do not mean to sound pretentious here at all but i am just trying to
> >illustrate my point. i turned pro aged 17 working on ships and in hotels
> >etc, but my main love was transcribing Chick Corea and Miles Davis (etc)
> >recordings. Basically, the whole future was music for me and i could see
> >nothing getting in the way. i had problems with alcohol and substances
> >but managed to clean myself up and have stayed completely off them for
> >many years now. i also decided to NEVER get married and have
> >children. And whilst at college i practiced and transcribed 6 to 8 hours
> >per day (even Xmas day a few times !!). My DIRECTION was clear and i felt
> >that as long as i made the required sacrifices and put in all the
> >dedicated work and commitment, then i would be rewarded with some kind of
> >success in my field. Though at the same time i was not doing it for
> >financial reward or any such gain, but just the feeling of being driven
> >and getting better and better. And it was a GREAT feeling because i felt
> >very liberated ahving found my so called destiny.
> >
> >But it just has not turned out how i expected and so for the last five
> >years or so i have totally lost the drive and interest in so many
> >musically related things. In fact its got so bad now that i feel guilty
> >because i think i have failed both myself and those around me (like my
> >college tutors etc). Its really not a good place to be thats for
> >sure. And i just can not see a way out of it.
> >
> >Personal health problems have also played a part, but there are many
> >people who are very successful in their chosen field with severe
> >disabillities of which they manage to transcend.
> >
> >So, thats my situation. Can't believe i am discussing this online here
> >but this site does seem to have many trustworthy and experienced musicians
> >in its community.
> >
> >Ta,
> >
> >Paul
> >
> >
> >
> >--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Yvonne R <yvonne.rhodes@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Paul,
> > > you are not alone ... many of us are not what we once dreamed we would be
> > > ..... yet ..!
> > >
> > > Did you know that, according to reports, a lot of multi millionaires did
> > > not start their businesses until they were 70 ! By comparison I am a mere
> > > young 'un .. granted I am in a cul-de-sac of my own right now .. not
> > helped
> > > at all by this recession that is not of our making ... but .. I hope to
> > > get things sorted ... and leave the dead end rut ...
> > >
> > > As long as I am alive I figure there is a chance it can change .. . why
> > not ?
> > >
> > > Are we a failure because we have not achieved our stated goals ... or are
> > > we still learning ... and have not achieved yet .. .. I think its the
> > > latter... as I tell may students ... there is no failure until you give
> > up !
> > >
> > > As Churchill said ... never, never, never, never give up !!
> > >
> > > We can all say we have failed ... not achieved .. not got what we want
> > > ... but maybe we are still on the way ... perhaps we have to learn all
> > > this and a little bit more .. after all the horse that wins by a nose is
> > > not 100 times better than the 2nd place ... its just a nose ! ... but the
> > > rewards are there for the taking ...
> > >
> > > Consistency of purpose ... Napoleon Hill said ... and many others since ..
> > >
> > > You're not beaten until you give up ... and as your such a young'un ...
> > you
> > > can't have got there yet ! you're too young ! lol !! ( me too !) ..
> > >
> > > We can have what ever we desire ... but .. we have the biggest problem of
> > > all to surmount ... to define what we actually want and are prepared to
> > > exclude everything else for to get ! Many will never define THAT
> > specific
> > > goal ... and so they are doomed to failure ... only those who CAN totally
> > > define their goal stand any chance of getting it ! How else could they
> > > ??? The Irish say "if you don't know where you are going .... any road
> > will
> > > do " .. and they are totally correct ...
> > >
> > > You're not too old until they bury you ... it may be too late then ...
> > just !
> > >
> > > One of the biggest problems we, as humans, have is your brains ability to
> > > love patterns ... habits are patterns .. if you go to work 5 days a
> > week ..
> > > there are times when you may show up on the 6th day ... by mistake ... or
> > > habit ... What is a rut other than a well worn habit !
> > >
> > > Many people call their rut a "comfort zone" ... they are used to it and,
> > > moan as they may, they like it there ... its easy ... it saves thinking ..
> > > ( our one major extra over animals... who... oddly ... go for ruts in a
> > big
> > > way ... have you not heard of a rabbit run ? ) .. we should be able to
> > > think ... but its easier not too ..
> > >
> > > In the business world you can be the boss or work for one ... what is the
> > > difference ? .. The boss will think and the rest will, like sheep, follow
> > > and become "wage slaves" ... ruts are so friendly ... you know them well
> > > .. but get out of the rut and life can be interesting and, in many ways,
> > > new and exciting again.
> > >
> > > Yvonne
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>

[Wes Garland]

Have you thought about taking up Jazz organ?

When I started playing Hammond I realized it "spoke" to me in a way that
piano does not. It's hard to explain. Piano can be pretty, it can be
boisterous...but organ can be raucous, too. And it it can play really long
notes, like a saxophone.

Wes

On 11 August 2013 12:23, Paul <***@hotmail.com> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Hi Yvonne,
>
> Thanks very much for the kind reply.
>
> The 'direction' definately started disappearing when i left college. Up
> until that point i had felt like i was on a clearly defined path. Whilst a
> college i had some EXCELLENT tutors and i learned so much from them.
>
> i made the jump and moved to London but did not manage to break-in at all
> to anything significant. i did teaching and regular gigs (like
> cocktail-piano etc) and did so for the 6 x years i was there. But i ended
> up in a rut, depressed and in the end moving back home and more or less
> giving up. London is VERY hard as there are so many good players and
> everything is a closed-shop. Yes, many people are successful of course, but
> after giving it 6 x years i just had to admit to myself that it was time to
> call it a day. On the POSITIVE side, at least i can say i did go to college
> and move to London giving it 110%, and as we were talking about earlier, i
> was not one of those people who sat around just talking about it !!
>
> So now my playing and other music skills have just deteriorated so much as
> a result of this. i feel like it's all over now and i am just sitting
> around waiting to retire. In a lot of ways i don't even feel like a
> 'musician' anymore !! i used to think that maybe i had put so much effort
> into music that i had actually burned out the desire to be interested in it
> anymore !! A few people have said to me that its good to have a break from
> music now and again and to do something different for a while. But as i
> say, the hunger and desire i once had has disappeard ?? i could gone on,
> but its too depressing !!
>
> So anyway, i did a lot of long thinking about this (because its obviously
> quite worrying) and i was trying to work out if i could find some aspect of
> music (however small) which might re-inspire me (or at least keep me
> interested). So i thought about how i have always struggled with the
> maths/physics side of music (in a massive way !!) hence me joining this
> site a few months ago. And also i purchased Cubase last year which i am
> trying to learn from scratch. Both of these topics are very new to me
> because although i could/should have learned them earlier in life, i was
> way too busy concentrating on other aspects such as
> Composing/Arranging/Transcribing etc......
>
> The ultimate goal (since i was in my teens) was to be a successful jazz
> pianist. And that was it really, simple !! Nothing else ever really
> interested me so you could say that i had a 'one track mind'. i never
> understood how someone could have lots of DIFFERENT interests and hobbies.
> And i never understood how musicians could treat music like a JOB (in that
> they only think about music whilst they are performing on stage and have no
> interest in it elsewhere).
>
> Not sure if that has answered you questions or not ??
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Paul
>
> --- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Yvonne R <***@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Paul,
> > so you did all that work ... but what was the target ? the goal ? the
> real
> > end thing you totally wanted that has, apparently, now changed ? Or was
> > it that the work so far ( you're not quite dead yet ..) .. is but the
> > "training" for the best that is yet to come ?
> >
> > You say "my main love" ... not my main "direction" while there is a lot
> of
> > good, hard and dedicated work you have done ... what was the aim of it
> all
> > ? Was there one ? or , as with most of us, did you do what you loved and
> > get sidetracked a lot ... and now find your self in a siding while
> others
> > pass you by ? ... Do others pass you by ? are they even going in the
> same
> > direction .. ?
> >
> > "the whole future was music for me" ... a wide brief to say the least
> ...
> > Music is a massive field and to be, say a leading Jazz trumpeter, takes
> > most of your life to master.
> >
> > Focus is the key ... I feel that you have probably only done the ground
> > work so far ( though it may not seem it with the amount of work you have
> > done) .. and that given the experience you now have ... and a direction
> > (focused ) to go for .. the next part of the journey may well be easier
> > than you think ! But you have to choose what it is to be ..
> >
> > What has changed to make you feel that "But it just has not turned out
> how
> > i expected" ?
> >
> > As for personal health problems ... you are still alive ! That has got
> to
> > be a bonus as a lot of "successful" musicians ... are now dead !
> (Victims
> > of their success). As I get older I have noticed that my "little black
> > book" only has names starting with "Dr" in it these days ... Gone are
> the
> > heady days of my youth ( in physical form .. though I am young at heart)
> I
> > now know a Dr for almost every part of my body ! I am now far more
> > knowledgeable about the human form than I ever thought I would be as
> most
> > of it seem to be playing up at one point or another !
> >
> > Yes there are people with worse conditions than both of us, take Dr
> Stephen
> > Hawking ... hes got a brain that will not stop ... and hes doing more
> from
> > his chair than most people, who are fit enough to win the Olympics, will
> > ever do .. hes even been on Star Trek !! It could be said its BECAUSE of
> > his physical limitations that he is so smart ... he did not really have
> the
> > option to go and play football or any other physical sport ... so
> > concentrated on his strength ... a brain ... and he has worked it very
> hard
> > .. more power to him .. Focus is the name of the game ..
> >
> > The situation you are in is, I am sorry to say, not unique to you ... (
> > though that will not help the way you feel about it ) .. I am qualified
> in
> > many areas ...I started gaining these qualifications a few years back
> ...
> > at one point 12 in a year !! ( focus ... ) ... but ... they have proved
> > somewhat useless as I can not seem to get a job anywhere .. and have
> even
> > been told I am "over qualified" !!
> >
> > I see my self as a massive resource for any company, with a wealth of
> > experience and the ability to think "out of the box" as they put it ..
> yet
> > ... no position I apply for is to be mine ... even with my knowledge I
> can
> > not fathom why this is ! But its their loss .. I just wish I could get a
> > paying position to fund my desires ...
> >
> > Hey ho ... we all have our cross to bear ..
> > Yvonne
> >
> >
> >
> > At 01:49 11/08/13 +0000, you wrote:
> > >Thank you Yvonne,
> > >
> > >The best way i can put it is that up until about 10 x years ago (a
> couple
> > >of years after i graduated from studying at music college for five
> years),
> > >i had no doubt whatsoever in my mind that i was born to be a musician.
> i
> > >do not mean to sound pretentious here at all but i am just trying to
> > >illustrate my point. i turned pro aged 17 working on ships and in
> hotels
> > >etc, but my main love was transcribing Chick Corea and Miles Davis
> (etc)
> > >recordings. Basically, the whole future was music for me and i could
> see
> > >nothing getting in the way. i had problems with alcohol and substances
> > >but managed to clean myself up and have stayed completely off them for
> > >many years now. i also decided to NEVER get married and have
> > >children. And whilst at college i practiced and transcribed 6 to 8
> hours
> > >per day (even Xmas day a few times !!). My DIRECTION was clear and i
> felt
> > >that as long as i made the required sacrifices and put in all the
> > >dedicated work and commitment, then i would be rewarded with some kind
> of
> > >success in my field. Though at the same time i was not doing it for
> > >financial reward or any such gain, but just the feeling of being driven
> > >and getting better and better. And it was a GREAT feeling because i
> felt
> > >very liberated ahving found my so called destiny.
> > >
> > >But it just has not turned out how i expected and so for the last five
> > >years or so i have totally lost the drive and interest in so many
> > >musically related things. In fact its got so bad now that i feel guilty
> > >because i think i have failed both myself and those around me (like my
> > >college tutors etc). Its really not a good place to be thats for
> > >sure. And i just can not see a way out of it.
> > >
> > >Personal health problems have also played a part, but there are many
> > >people who are very successful in their chosen field with severe
> > >disabillities of which they manage to transcend.
> > >
> > >So, thats my situation. Can't believe i am discussing this online here
> > >but this site does seem to have many trustworthy and experienced
> musicians
> > >in its community.
> > >
> > >Ta,
> > >
> > >Paul
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Yvonne R <yvonne.rhodes@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Paul,
> > > > you are not alone ... many of us are not what we once dreamed we
> would be
> > > > ..... yet ..!
> > > >
> > > > Did you know that, according to reports, a lot of multi millionaires
> did
> > > > not start their businesses until they were 70 ! By comparison I am a
> mere
> > > > young 'un .. granted I am in a cul-de-sac of my own right now .. not
> > > helped
> > > > at all by this recession that is not of our making ... but .. I hope
> to
> > > > get things sorted ... and leave the dead end rut ...
> > > >
> > > > As long as I am alive I figure there is a chance it can change .. .
> why
> > > not ?
> > > >
> > > > Are we a failure because we have not achieved our stated goals ...
> or are
> > > > we still learning ... and have not achieved yet .. .. I think its the
> > > > latter... as I tell may students ... there is no failure until you
> give
> > > up !
> > > >
> > > > As Churchill said ... never, never, never, never give up !!
> > > >
> > > > We can all say we have failed ... not achieved .. not got what we
> want
> > > > ... but maybe we are still on the way ... perhaps we have to learn
> all
> > > > this and a little bit more .. after all the horse that wins by a
> nose is
> > > > not 100 times better than the 2nd place ... its just a nose ! ...
> but the
> > > > rewards are there for the taking ...
> > > >
> > > > Consistency of purpose ... Napoleon Hill said ... and many others
> since ..
> > > >
> > > > You're not beaten until you give up ... and as your such a young'un
> ...
> > > you
> > > > can't have got there yet ! you're too young ! lol !! ( me too !) ..
> > > >
> > > > We can have what ever we desire ... but .. we have the biggest
> problem of
> > > > all to surmount ... to define what we actually want and are prepared
> to
> > > > exclude everything else for to get ! Many will never define THAT
> > > specific
> > > > goal ... and so they are doomed to failure ... only those who CAN
> totally
> > > > define their goal stand any chance of getting it ! How else could
> they
> > > > ??? The Irish say "if you don't know where you are going .... any
> road
> > > will
> > > > do " .. and they are totally correct ...
> > > >
> > > > You're not too old until they bury you ... it may be too late then
> ...
> > > just !
> > > >
> > > > One of the biggest problems we, as humans, have is your brains
> ability to
> > > > love patterns ... habits are patterns .. if you go to work 5 days a
> > > week ..
> > > > there are times when you may show up on the 6th day ... by mistake
> ... or
> > > > habit ... What is a rut other than a well worn habit !
> > > >
> > > > Many people call their rut a "comfort zone" ... they are used to it
> and,
> > > > moan as they may, they like it there ... its easy ... it saves
> thinking ..
> > > > ( our one major extra over animals... who... oddly ... go for ruts
> in a
> > > big
> > > > way ... have you not heard of a rabbit run ? ) .. we should be able
> to
> > > > think ... but its easier not too ..
> > > >
> > > > In the business world you can be the boss or work for one ... what
> is the
> > > > difference ? .. The boss will think and the rest will, like sheep,
> follow
> > > > and become "wage slaves" ... ruts are so friendly ... you know them
> well
> > > > .. but get out of the rut and life can be interesting and, in many
> ways,
> > > > new and exciting again.
> > > >
> > > > Yvonne
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >------------------------------------
> > >
> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>



--
Wesley W. Garland
Director, Product Development
PageMail, Inc.
[phone] x 102

[Paul]

Wes,

Yeh man, i had a M100 Hammond with 145-Leslie. Superb sound and as you say, it has a 'Square Envelope' so you can phrase like a horn player.

But i got sick and tired of playing bass-pedals and so switched over to using a synth to play left-hand-bass. Ok, you lose a hand, but i could 'walk' way more faster and interestingly than on bass pedals.

But as anyone who has carried a Hammond up and down fire escapes and stairways will confirm, it is a complete MISSION to move !! i would have to plan the logistics of the gig two weeks in advance, and book a hire van !!

Now i have a NORD STAGE which has a good enough (for me) Hammond Sound. But obviously you can't beat the real thing.

Paul



--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Wes Garland <***@...> wrote:
>
> Have you thought about taking up Jazz organ?
>
> When I started playing Hammond I realized it "spoke" to me in a way that
> piano does not. It's hard to explain. Piano can be pretty, it can be
> boisterous...but organ can be raucous, too. And it it can play really long
> notes, like a saxophone.
>
> Wes
>

[Wes Garland]

On 11 August 2013 13:01, Paul <***@hotmail.com> wrote:

> **
> Yeh man, i had a M100 Hammond with 145-Leslie. Superb sound and as you
> say, it has a 'Square Envelope' so you can phrase like a horn player.
>
> But i got sick and tired of playing bass-pedals and so switched over to
> using a synth to play left-hand-bass. Ok, you lose a hand, but i could
> 'walk' way more faster and interestingly than on bass pedals.
>
Most Jazz Hammond organists don't actually play bass on the pedals; that's
a myth. A lot of guys tap an arbitrary pedal super fast to add some attack
to their notes. The lower manual with a registration like 846 can really
sound great. You've got (most of) the tone with an M100, but you are
missing two drawbars and an octave and a half worth of notes...that
translates to losing two and a half octaves of left hand walking space.
Your synth solution is likely very similar, except you don't need to tap
your foot to get the attack of a string bass.

> But as anyone who has carried a Hammond up and down fire escapes and
> stairways will confirm, it is a complete MISSION to move !! i would have to
> plan the logistics of the gig two weeks in advance, and book a hire van !!
>
OOH yeah. My main gig rig is an L111 with a leslie 760, and I play
regularly up a narrow spiral staircase. It takes two people a fair bit of
effort to move it up stairs. I can handle 3 stairs on my own, as well as
getting it in and out of the vehicle by myself. I built something similar
to the split L100 and M100 organs that were available from Hammond
UK.....the hardest part about moving a spinet is figuring out where to put
your knees.

> Now i have a NORD STAGE which has a good enough (for me) Hammond Sound.
> But obviously you can't beat the real thing.
>
A Nord C2D might suit your fancy. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8QhtLO5w1I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8Vsc3ws_6Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xVU_BLow5M (skip 4 minutes to get to
music)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFM44NExW9w

Or maybe this is more your speed?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UUCq395Eok

(BTW - I never looked at reverb nor the black drawbars the same after
hearing that last one just once)

Wes

--
Wesley W. Garland
Director, Product Development
PageMail, Inc.
[phone] x 102

[Paul]

Hi Wes,

Well actually, i could only play (properly) a 'spinet' size pedalboard and not 'full' pedalboard. i could get by on it but not on a professional level.

One of the reasons i liked a seperate synth for left-hand-bass was because (for some reason) i much prefered to have my left hand ABOVE my right in this scenario. It just felt more 'natural' this way around. Plus, then i could then play standing up.

i use my Nord also for its Piano and Synth sounds and so i chose the STAGE model over the others for this reason. Its 88 x note so s can 'split' it and still have plenty of range in either hand.

(The Billy Preston video is very good indeed !!)


Ta,

Paul



--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Wes Garland <***@...>

> Most Jazz Hammond organists don't actually play bass on the pedals; that's
> a myth.

> Your synth solution is likely very similar, except you don't need to tap
> your foot to get the attack of a string bass.
>
>
> Or maybe this is more your speed?
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UUCq395Eok

[Yvonne R]

>.....the hardest part about moving a spinet is figuring out where to put
>your knees.

That is simple ... if two people are carrying .. .. one grabs just under
the keyboard .. as most people do .. but the other grabs at the feet ! ( ok
foot ) .. both then have all the leg room in the world ! .. Its how we
moved organs for years in the shops I worked in ... and I still have the
occasional one to move now ! ...

I have a pair of T500's .. nice .. sound lovely ... but the weight
... OMG ... if I was a man I would extra bits to keep my extra bits
company ! ( Still does my back in though) .. Thinking of getting rid of
them soon ... but who would want them given a tiny casio can make the
noises most are happy with ... many folk think a DX7 it too heavy ... I
must show them the T500 !

Way back when .. I made a 13 note keyboard for a chap to be his bass pedals
.. he had it on top of the organ ... we always intended to expand it ...
but never got around to it ... ( I have a round tuit now ... but the chap
is long gone !)

[Yvonne R]

Hi Paul, maybe it would be an idea if you sent me your email .. or a PM ? I
am not sure how you do this on a yahoo group ? but we have ... slightly
... drifted away from the OP's topic ?

Yvonne



At 16:23 11/08/13 +0000, you wrote:
>Hi Yvonne,
>
>Thanks very much for the kind reply.
>
>The 'direction' definately started disappearing when i left college. Up
>until that point i had felt like i was on a clearly defined path. Whilst
>a college i had some EXCELLENT tutors and i learned so much from them.
>
>i made the jump and moved to London but did not manage to break-in at all
>to anything significant. i did teaching and regular gigs (like
>cocktail-piano etc) and did so for the 6 x years i was there. But i ended
>up in a rut, depressed and in the end moving back home and more or less
>giving up. London is VERY hard as there are so many good players and
>everything is a closed-shop. Yes, many people are successful of course,
>but after giving it 6 x years i just had to admit to myself that it was
>time to call it a day. On the POSITIVE side, at least i can say i did go
>to college and move to London giving it 110%, and as we were talking about
>earlier, i was not one of those people who sat around just talking about it !!
>
>So now my playing and other music skills have just deteriorated so much as
>a result of this. i feel like it's all over now and i am just sitting
>around waiting to retire. In a lot of ways i don't even feel like a
>'musician' anymore !! i used to think that maybe i had put so much effort
>into music that i had actually burned out the desire to be interested in
>it anymore !! A few people have said to me that its good to have a break
>from music now and again and to do something different for a while. But
>as i say, the hunger and desire i once had has disappeard ?? i could gone
>on, but its too depressing !!
>
>So anyway, i did a lot of long thinking about this (because its obviously
>quite worrying) and i was trying to work out if i could find some aspect
>of music (however small) which might re-inspire me (or at least keep me
>interested). So i thought about how i have always struggled with the
>maths/physics side of music (in a massive way !!) hence me joining this
>site a few months ago. And also i purchased Cubase last year which i am
>trying to learn from scratch. Both of these topics are very new to me
>because although i could/should have learned them earlier in life, i was
>way too busy concentrating on other aspects such as
>Composing/Arranging/Transcribing etc......
>
>The ultimate goal (since i was in my teens) was to be a successful jazz
>pianist. And that was it really, simple !! Nothing else ever really
>interested me so you could say that i had a 'one track mind'. i never
>understood how someone could have lots of DIFFERENT interests and
>hobbies. And i never understood how musicians could treat music like a
>JOB (in that they only think about music whilst they are performing on
>stage and have no interest in it elsewhere).
>
>Not sure if that has answered you questions or not ??
>
>Thanks,
>
>Paul
>
>
>
>
>--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Yvonne R <***@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Paul,
> > so you did all that work ... but what was the target ? the goal ? the real
> > end thing you totally wanted that has, apparently, now changed ? Or was
> > it that the work so far ( you're not quite dead yet ..) .. is but the
> > "training" for the best that is yet to come ?
> >
> > You say "my main love" ... not my main "direction" while there is a
> lot of
> > good, hard and dedicated work you have done ... what was the aim of it
> all
> > ? Was there one ? or , as with most of us, did you do what you loved and
> > get sidetracked a lot ... and now find your self in a siding while others
> > pass you by ? ... Do others pass you by ? are they even going in the same
> > direction .. ?
> >
> > "the whole future was music for me" ... a wide brief to say the least ...
> > Music is a massive field and to be, say a leading Jazz trumpeter, takes
> > most of your life to master.
> >
> > Focus is the key ... I feel that you have probably only done the ground
> > work so far ( though it may not seem it with the amount of work you have
> > done) .. and that given the experience you now have ... and a direction
> > (focused ) to go for .. the next part of the journey may well be easier
> > than you think ! But you have to choose what it is to be ..
> >
> > What has changed to make you feel that "But it just has not turned out how
> > i expected" ?
> >
> > As for personal health problems ... you are still alive ! That has got to
> > be a bonus as a lot of "successful" musicians ... are now dead ! (Victims
> > of their success). As I get older I have noticed that my "little black
> > book" only has names starting with "Dr" in it these days ... Gone are the
> > heady days of my youth ( in physical form .. though I am young at
> heart) I
> > now know a Dr for almost every part of my body ! I am now far more
> > knowledgeable about the human form than I ever thought I would be as most
> > of it seem to be playing up at one point or another !
> >
> > Yes there are people with worse conditions than both of us, take Dr
> Stephen
> > Hawking ... hes got a brain that will not stop ... and hes doing more from
> > his chair than most people, who are fit enough to win the Olympics, will
> > ever do .. hes even been on Star Trek !! It could be said its BECAUSE of
> > his physical limitations that he is so smart ... he did not really have
> the
> > option to go and play football or any other physical sport ... so
> > concentrated on his strength ... a brain ... and he has worked it very
> hard
> > .. more power to him .. Focus is the name of the game ..
> >
> > The situation you are in is, I am sorry to say, not unique to you ... (
> > though that will not help the way you feel about it ) .. I am qualified in
> > many areas ...I started gaining these qualifications a few years back ...
> > at one point 12 in a year !! ( focus ... ) ... but ... they have proved
> > somewhat useless as I can not seem to get a job anywhere .. and have even
> > been told I am "over qualified" !!
> >
> > I see my self as a massive resource for any company, with a wealth of
> > experience and the ability to think "out of the box" as they put it ..
> yet
> > ... no position I apply for is to be mine ... even with my knowledge I can
> > not fathom why this is ! But its their loss .. I just wish I could get a
> > paying position to fund my desires ...
> >
> > Hey ho ... we all have our cross to bear ..
> > Yvonne
> >
> >
> >
> > At 01:49 11/08/13 +0000, you wrote:
> > >Thank you Yvonne,
> > >
> > >The best way i can put it is that up until about 10 x years ago (a couple
> > >of years after i graduated from studying at music college for five
> years),
> > >i had no doubt whatsoever in my mind that i was born to be a musician. i
> > >do not mean to sound pretentious here at all but i am just trying to
> > >illustrate my point. i turned pro aged 17 working on ships and in hotels
> > >etc, but my main love was transcribing Chick Corea and Miles Davis (etc)
> > >recordings. Basically, the whole future was music for me and i could see
> > >nothing getting in the way. i had problems with alcohol and substances
> > >but managed to clean myself up and have stayed completely off them for
> > >many years now. i also decided to NEVER get married and have
> > >children. And whilst at college i practiced and transcribed 6 to 8 hours
> > >per day (even Xmas day a few times !!). My DIRECTION was clear and i
> felt
> > >that as long as i made the required sacrifices and put in all the
> > >dedicated work and commitment, then i would be rewarded with some kind of
> > >success in my field. Though at the same time i was not doing it for
> > >financial reward or any such gain, but just the feeling of being driven
> > >and getting better and better. And it was a GREAT feeling because i felt
> > >very liberated ahving found my so called destiny.
> > >
> > >But it just has not turned out how i expected and so for the last five
> > >years or so i have totally lost the drive and interest in so many
> > >musically related things. In fact its got so bad now that i feel guilty
> > >because i think i have failed both myself and those around me (like my
> > >college tutors etc). Its really not a good place to be thats for
> > >sure. And i just can not see a way out of it.
> > >
> > >Personal health problems have also played a part, but there are many
> > >people who are very successful in their chosen field with severe
> > >disabillities of which they manage to transcend.
> > >
> > >So, thats my situation. Can't believe i am discussing this online here
> > >but this site does seem to have many trustworthy and experienced
> musicians
> > >in its community.
> > >
> > >Ta,
> > >
> > >Paul
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Yvonne R <yvonne.rhodes@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Paul,
> > > > you are not alone ... many of us are not what we once dreamed we
> would be
> > > > ..... yet ..!
> > > >
> > > > Did you know that, according to reports, a lot of multi
> millionaires did
> > > > not start their businesses until they were 70 ! By comparison I am
> a mere
> > > > young 'un .. granted I am in a cul-de-sac of my own right now .. not
> > > helped
> > > > at all by this recession that is not of our making ... but .. I
> hope to
> > > > get things sorted ... and leave the dead end rut ...
> > > >
> > > > As long as I am alive I figure there is a chance it can change .. .
> why
> > > not ?
> > > >
> > > > Are we a failure because we have not achieved our stated goals ...
> or are
> > > > we still learning ... and have not achieved yet .. .. I think its the
> > > > latter... as I tell may students ... there is no failure until you
> give
> > > up !
> > > >
> > > > As Churchill said ... never, never, never, never give up !!
> > > >
> > > > We can all say we have failed ... not achieved .. not got what we want
> > > > ... but maybe we are still on the way ... perhaps we have to learn all
> > > > this and a little bit more .. after all the horse that wins by a
> nose is
> > > > not 100 times better than the 2nd place ... its just a nose ! ...
> but the
> > > > rewards are there for the taking ...
> > > >
> > > > Consistency of purpose ... Napoleon Hill said ... and many others
> since ..
> > > >
> > > > You're not beaten until you give up ... and as your such a young'un
> ...
> > > you
> > > > can't have got there yet ! you're too young ! lol !! ( me too !) ..
> > > >
> > > > We can have what ever we desire ... but .. we have the biggest
> problem of
> > > > all to surmount ... to define what we actually want and are prepared to
> > > > exclude everything else for to get ! Many will never define THAT
> > > specific
> > > > goal ... and so they are doomed to failure ... only those who CAN
> totally
> > > > define their goal stand any chance of getting it ! How else could
> they
> > > > ??? The Irish say "if you don't know where you are going .... any road
> > > will
> > > > do " .. and they are totally correct ...
> > > >
> > > > You're not too old until they bury you ... it may be too late then ...
> > > just !
> > > >
> > > > One of the biggest problems we, as humans, have is your brains
> ability to
> > > > love patterns ... habits are patterns .. if you go to work 5 days a
> > > week ..
> > > > there are times when you may show up on the 6th day ... by mistake
> ... or
> > > > habit ... What is a rut other than a well worn habit !
> > > >
> > > > Many people call their rut a "comfort zone" ... they are used to it
> and,
> > > > moan as they may, they like it there ... its easy ... it saves
> thinking ..
> > > > ( our one major extra over animals... who... oddly ... go for ruts
> in a
> > > big
> > > > way ... have you not heard of a rabbit run ? ) .. we should be able to
> > > > think ... but its easier not too ..
> > > >
> > > > In the business world you can be the boss or work for one ... what
> is the
> > > > difference ? .. The boss will think and the rest will, like sheep,
> follow
> > > > and become "wage slaves" ... ruts are so friendly ... you know
> them well
> > > > .. but get out of the rut and life can be interesting and, in many
> ways,
> > > > new and exciting again.
> > > >
> > > > Yvonne
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >------------------------------------
> > >
> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Paul]

Sure Yvonne,

It's paulseaman1 (at) hotmail.com

Or i am on Skype, Soundcloud, You Tube, etc as 'monsterjazzlicks'.

i sent the OP a PM apologising about this thread going crazy !! He was really cool about it.

Ta,

Paul



--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Yvonne R <***@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Paul, maybe it would be an idea if you sent me your email .. or a PM ? I
> am not sure how you do this on a yahoo group ? but we have ... slightly
> ... drifted away from the OP's topic ?
>
> Yvonne
>
>
>
> At 16:23 11/08/13 +0000, you wrote:
> >Hi Yvonne,
> >
> >Thanks very much for the kind reply.
> >
> >The 'direction' definately started disappearing when i left college. Up
> >until that point i had felt like i was on a clearly defined path. Whilst
> >a college i had some EXCELLENT tutors and i learned so much from them.
> >
> >i made the jump and moved to London but did not manage to break-in at all
> >to anything significant. i did teaching and regular gigs (like
> >cocktail-piano etc) and did so for the 6 x years i was there. But i ended
> >up in a rut, depressed and in the end moving back home and more or less
> >giving up. London is VERY hard as there are so many good players and
> >everything is a closed-shop. Yes, many people are successful of course,
> >but after giving it 6 x years i just had to admit to myself that it was
> >time to call it a day. On the POSITIVE side, at least i can say i did go
> >to college and move to London giving it 110%, and as we were talking about
> >earlier, i was not one of those people who sat around just talking about it !!
> >
> >So now my playing and other music skills have just deteriorated so much as
> >a result of this. i feel like it's all over now and i am just sitting
> >around waiting to retire. In a lot of ways i don't even feel like a
> >'musician' anymore !! i used to think that maybe i had put so much effort
> >into music that i had actually burned out the desire to be interested in
> >it anymore !! A few people have said to me that its good to have a break
> >from music now and again and to do something different for a while. But
> >as i say, the hunger and desire i once had has disappeard ?? i could gone
> >on, but its too depressing !!
> >
> >So anyway, i did a lot of long thinking about this (because its obviously
> >quite worrying) and i was trying to work out if i could find some aspect
> >of music (however small) which might re-inspire me (or at least keep me
> >interested). So i thought about how i have always struggled with the
> >maths/physics side of music (in a massive way !!) hence me joining this
> >site a few months ago. And also i purchased Cubase last year which i am
> >trying to learn from scratch. Both of these topics are very new to me
> >because although i could/should have learned them earlier in life, i was
> >way too busy concentrating on other aspects such as
> >Composing/Arranging/Transcribing etc......
> >
> >The ultimate goal (since i was in my teens) was to be a successful jazz
> >pianist. And that was it really, simple !! Nothing else ever really
> >interested me so you could say that i had a 'one track mind'. i never
> >understood how someone could have lots of DIFFERENT interests and
> >hobbies. And i never understood how musicians could treat music like a
> >JOB (in that they only think about music whilst they are performing on
> >stage and have no interest in it elsewhere).
> >
> >Not sure if that has answered you questions or not ??
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Paul
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Yvonne R <yvonne.rhodes@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Paul,
> > > so you did all that work ... but what was the target ? the goal ? the real
> > > end thing you totally wanted that has, apparently, now changed ? Or was
> > > it that the work so far ( you're not quite dead yet ..) .. is but the
> > > "training" for the best that is yet to come ?
> > >
> > > You say "my main love" ... not my main "direction" while there is a
> > lot of
> > > good, hard and dedicated work you have done ... what was the aim of it
> > all
> > > ? Was there one ? or , as with most of us, did you do what you loved and
> > > get sidetracked a lot ... and now find your self in a siding while others
> > > pass you by ? ... Do others pass you by ? are they even going in the same
> > > direction .. ?
> > >
> > > "the whole future was music for me" ... a wide brief to say the least ...
> > > Music is a massive field and to be, say a leading Jazz trumpeter, takes
> > > most of your life to master.
> > >
> > > Focus is the key ... I feel that you have probably only done the ground
> > > work so far ( though it may not seem it with the amount of work you have
> > > done) .. and that given the experience you now have ... and a direction
> > > (focused ) to go for .. the next part of the journey may well be easier
> > > than you think ! But you have to choose what it is to be ..
> > >
> > > What has changed to make you feel that "But it just has not turned out how
> > > i expected" ?
> > >
> > > As for personal health problems ... you are still alive ! That has got to
> > > be a bonus as a lot of "successful" musicians ... are now dead ! (Victims
> > > of their success). As I get older I have noticed that my "little black
> > > book" only has names starting with "Dr" in it these days ... Gone are the
> > > heady days of my youth ( in physical form .. though I am young at
> > heart) I
> > > now know a Dr for almost every part of my body ! I am now far more
> > > knowledgeable about the human form than I ever thought I would be as most
> > > of it seem to be playing up at one point or another !
> > >
> > > Yes there are people with worse conditions than both of us, take Dr
> > Stephen
> > > Hawking ... hes got a brain that will not stop ... and hes doing more from
> > > his chair than most people, who are fit enough to win the Olympics, will
> > > ever do .. hes even been on Star Trek !! It could be said its BECAUSE of
> > > his physical limitations that he is so smart ... he did not really have
> > the
> > > option to go and play football or any other physical sport ... so
> > > concentrated on his strength ... a brain ... and he has worked it very
> > hard
> > > .. more power to him .. Focus is the name of the game ..
> > >
> > > The situation you are in is, I am sorry to say, not unique to you ... (
> > > though that will not help the way you feel about it ) .. I am qualified in
> > > many areas ...I started gaining these qualifications a few years back ...
> > > at one point 12 in a year !! ( focus ... ) ... but ... they have proved
> > > somewhat useless as I can not seem to get a job anywhere .. and have even
> > > been told I am "over qualified" !!
> > >
> > > I see my self as a massive resource for any company, with a wealth of
> > > experience and the ability to think "out of the box" as they put it ..
> > yet
> > > ... no position I apply for is to be mine ... even with my knowledge I can
> > > not fathom why this is ! But its their loss .. I just wish I could get a
> > > paying position to fund my desires ...
> > >
> > > Hey ho ... we all have our cross to bear ..
> > > Yvonne
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > At 01:49 11/08/13 +0000, you wrote:
> > > >Thank you Yvonne,
> > > >
> > > >The best way i can put it is that up until about 10 x years ago (a couple
> > > >of years after i graduated from studying at music college for five
> > years),
> > > >i had no doubt whatsoever in my mind that i was born to be a musician. i
> > > >do not mean to sound pretentious here at all but i am just trying to
> > > >illustrate my point. i turned pro aged 17 working on ships and in hotels
> > > >etc, but my main love was transcribing Chick Corea and Miles Davis (etc)
> > > >recordings. Basically, the whole future was music for me and i could see
> > > >nothing getting in the way. i had problems with alcohol and substances
> > > >but managed to clean myself up and have stayed completely off them for
> > > >many years now. i also decided to NEVER get married and have
> > > >children. And whilst at college i practiced and transcribed 6 to 8 hours
> > > >per day (even Xmas day a few times !!). My DIRECTION was clear and i
> > felt
> > > >that as long as i made the required sacrifices and put in all the
> > > >dedicated work and commitment, then i would be rewarded with some kind of
> > > >success in my field. Though at the same time i was not doing it for
> > > >financial reward or any such gain, but just the feeling of being driven
> > > >and getting better and better. And it was a GREAT feeling because i felt
> > > >very liberated ahving found my so called destiny.
> > > >
> > > >But it just has not turned out how i expected and so for the last five
> > > >years or so i have totally lost the drive and interest in so many
> > > >musically related things. In fact its got so bad now that i feel guilty
> > > >because i think i have failed both myself and those around me (like my
> > > >college tutors etc). Its really not a good place to be thats for
> > > >sure. And i just can not see a way out of it.
> > > >
> > > >Personal health problems have also played a part, but there are many
> > > >people who are very successful in their chosen field with severe
> > > >disabillities of which they manage to transcend.
> > > >
> > > >So, thats my situation. Can't believe i am discussing this online here
> > > >but this site does seem to have many trustworthy and experienced
> > musicians
> > > >in its community.
> > > >
> > > >Ta,
> > > >
> > > >Paul
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Yvonne R <yvonne.rhodes@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Paul,
> > > > > you are not alone ... many of us are not what we once dreamed we
> > would be
> > > > > ..... yet ..!
> > > > >
> > > > > Did you know that, according to reports, a lot of multi
> > millionaires did
> > > > > not start their businesses until they were 70 ! By comparison I am
> > a mere
> > > > > young 'un .. granted I am in a cul-de-sac of my own right now .. not
> > > > helped
> > > > > at all by this recession that is not of our making ... but .. I
> > hope to
> > > > > get things sorted ... and leave the dead end rut ...
> > > > >
> > > > > As long as I am alive I figure there is a chance it can change .. .
> > why
> > > > not ?
> > > > >
> > > > > Are we a failure because we have not achieved our stated goals ...
> > or are
> > > > > we still learning ... and have not achieved yet .. .. I think its the
> > > > > latter... as I tell may students ... there is no failure until you
> > give
> > > > up !
> > > > >
> > > > > As Churchill said ... never, never, never, never give up !!
> > > > >
> > > > > We can all say we have failed ... not achieved .. not got what we want
> > > > > ... but maybe we are still on the way ... perhaps we have to learn all
> > > > > this and a little bit more .. after all the horse that wins by a
> > nose is
> > > > > not 100 times better than the 2nd place ... its just a nose ! ...
> > but the
> > > > > rewards are there for the taking ...
> > > > >
> > > > > Consistency of purpose ... Napoleon Hill said ... and many others
> > since ..
> > > > >
> > > > > You're not beaten until you give up ... and as your such a young'un
> > ...
> > > > you
> > > > > can't have got there yet ! you're too young ! lol !! ( me too !) ..
> > > > >
> > > > > We can have what ever we desire ... but .. we have the biggest
> > problem of
> > > > > all to surmount ... to define what we actually want and are prepared to
> > > > > exclude everything else for to get ! Many will never define THAT
> > > > specific
> > > > > goal ... and so they are doomed to failure ... only those who CAN
> > totally
> > > > > define their goal stand any chance of getting it ! How else could
> > they
> > > > > ??? The Irish say "if you don't know where you are going .... any road
> > > > will
> > > > > do " .. and they are totally correct ...
> > > > >
> > > > > You're not too old until they bury you ... it may be too late then ...
> > > > just !
> > > > >
> > > > > One of the biggest problems we, as humans, have is your brains
> > ability to
> > > > > love patterns ... habits are patterns .. if you go to work 5 days a
> > > > week ..
> > > > > there are times when you may show up on the 6th day ... by mistake
> > ... or
> > > > > habit ... What is a rut other than a well worn habit !
> > > > >
> > > > > Many people call their rut a "comfort zone" ... they are used to it
> > and,
> > > > > moan as they may, they like it there ... its easy ... it saves
> > thinking ..
> > > > > ( our one major extra over animals... who... oddly ... go for ruts
> > in a
> > > > big
> > > > > way ... have you not heard of a rabbit run ? ) .. we should be able to
> > > > > think ... but its easier not too ..
> > > > >
> > > > > In the business world you can be the boss or work for one ... what
> > is the
> > > > > difference ? .. The boss will think and the rest will, like sheep,
> > follow
> > > > > and become "wage slaves" ... ruts are so friendly ... you know
> > them well
> > > > > .. but get out of the rut and life can be interesting and, in many
> > ways,
> > > > > new and exciting again.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yvonne
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>

[Mike Ward]

I am 60, and I used to play in a rock band and loved it. Now I play for my grandson and am trying to instill music passion in him. I did with my son and he sings great. Doesn't play, but he's a great singer. My grandson loves to play the keyboard and I'm trying to nurture his creativeness in this area. :)




________________________________
From: Paul <***@hotmail.com>
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2013 12:42 PM
Subject: [YamahaDX] Re: Other DX7 books?



 
Thanks a lot Yvonne,

Those were very thoughtful words.

As you say, basically there are TWO types of people :-

Those that DO, and those that TALK about it !!!!

The problem is, (and without wishing to sound depressing, making excuses, or deviating from the original subject of this thread) is that i USED TO have all the drive and commitment and everything else that you mention, PLUS MORE !!! But over the years (i am age 44 now) things happen in ones life and the vision that we once had becomes blurred, until it is almost invisible. i have seen it happen to many musicians before and when i was in my 20's i distinctly remember saying to myself " i will NEVER let that happen to me".

But gradually over time (for various reasons) i just seem to have ended up permanently stuck in a meaningless cul-de-sac. i did not think i would ever end up here because my whole life has been about music. But something(s) has gone seriously wrong along the way. i find it strange that i have ended up almost the complete OPPOSITE to how i always wanted to be. Its ironic !!

Paul

>
> Hi Paul,
> I totally agree ... commitment and action are the two words that seem to be
> missing from most peoples dictionaries ! If you look at the successful
> people in the world ( no matter WHAT they are successful at ... the arts,
> physical, money) you will see that they dedicated themselves to the task
> ... and, perhaps more importantly, actually DID IT !!
>
> I wish I had a single penny for the number of people who will start
> something "one day soon" ... and NEVER actually START !!!! "A journey of
> a thousand miles starts with a single step" ... BUT you have GOT to make
> that first step ... then follow it with another ... and another ... until
> you get where you want to be.
>

[Chris Poacher]

Does anyone know of an upgrade to give more memory for a TX7? I would love
to get one.

Cheers,
Chris Poacher

<mailto:***@yahoo.co.uk> ***@yahoo.co.uk
<mailto:***@gmail.com> ***@gmail.com

Please feel free to check out my music at:-
<http://www.soundcloud.com/chrispoacher/sets>
www.soundcloud.com/chrispoacher/sets
<http://www.mixcloud.com/chrispoacher> www.mixcloud.com/chrispoacher
<http://www.adsr-music.net/> www.adsr-music.net


_____

From: ***@yahoogroups.com [mailto:***@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Yvonne R
Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2013 4:31 PM
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] Re: Other DX7 books?




Hi Paul,
absolutely .. but I did say the majority, not all ! .. There will be the
few, the very few, who excel and that is what makes them the great names
they are ...

The only problem then ... is the "designed by musicians" ... is for the few
not the many .. and its the many who buy and say its "difficult" to
programme ... ( most will not put the effort in ... but to get what you want
... you have too)

I managed to almost play reveille on a trumpet once ... and gave up ... as I
wanted to be a jazz musician .. it was not meant to be ... I just don't have
the patience ... but some do ... and the successful ones are very few in
number in any field ( not just music) .. these days I stick with making a
racket in my own home ... my days of being on stage with a guitar long gone
... We were at a gig once and a chap came to the stage and said he was
from the "performing right society" and that they had received a complaint
... we has what it was ... he stated we "weren't performing right!!" I
fear he was right even though it was meant to be a good humored joke .. (
another of the band had set it up ) ..

I now stick with my engineering ability and made mods for things ... Like
Range Rovers and other vehicle related items ..(currently making a memory
mod for my DX that will be internal and be like a multiple ram cart) ... I
can programme a little .. and save the public the pain of my performances ..
I am, at heart, a humanitarian .. I don't like to see people in pain ...
One day I will be rich and famous ... but, sadly, it will not be my music
that does it for me .. mind ... I am going deaf slowly ... so there is time
for me to write several symphonies yet ! lol !!

I like playing with music ... I found the lost chord once ... but lost it
again ... fame ... so fickle ... gone in an instant!

There is no substitute for knowledge ... but being able to apply it in a
practical fashion ... ... that's where the masters live !





At 15:03 10/08/13 +0000, you wrote:



Hi Yvonne,

Well (for me) the greatest keyboard players in the world have been Herbie
Hancock, Joe Zawinul, and Chick Corea. Whatever synth is in their hands
they make it their 'own'. The former two here are GENIOUS programers and
use their synths to the full potential. And Zawinul worked closey with Korg
to help develop its technology.

i had often seen the type of advertising statement "Designed by musicians
for musicians" and so collaborations must have existed in certain
situations.


Anyway, the people at the top of their game seem to be bloody good at
EVERYTHING !! Hancock has always been very interseted in Science and he
says that (the invention of) synths allowed him to make the bridge between
the two fields of Music and Science.

But on a more down-to-earth level, i have always known musicians to swing
either towards being a 'player' or a 'programmer' for the most part.

Paul




--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Yvonne R <***@...> wrote:
>
> BUT is that a bad thing ?? People bought the Hammond for the "Hammond
> sound" ... I guess they bought the DX for the "DX sound / special FX"
>
> People take a long time to actually try out most things ... Microsoft
> proved that with Word ... they asked millions of users what they would
like
> to see in a future release of Word .. ... they got a ton of replies ...
> and so went to work to find the most popular ... they never had to change
> anything !!! ALL the requested features and functions were ALREADY in the
> package ... !! People hardly ever use the technology they have to its
full
> potential .. yet buy new items to try and get a specific function ...
when,
> in the majority of cases, I suspect, they have the option in the kit they
> have .. but just haven't looked into using it correctly.
>
> One of the main problems with technology, especially when applied to
music,
> is ... musicians are not engineers !! Sadly engineers are, on the most
> part, not musicians ... yet to get the very best out of, say a DX, you
> really need to be an engineer ... but to play it requires a good musician
!!
>
> I used to be an engineer in Birmingham UK .. I worked for several of the
> music shops ( several at the same time !!) .. I was asked to play a
> Gulbranson organ once by the manager of one shop ... I told him I had a
> better chance of flying to the moon from a standing start .... we asked my

> why I could not play ... I replied with ... "so why can't you repair them
> ?" .... he thought ... nodded ... and went out to play for the customer
!
> ...
>
> The same problem seems to be prevalent almost anywhere there is technology

> ... the majority of programmers do not know how to be a given discipline
> (Doctor, Lawyer ... etc) .. yet write the software the former have to use
> ... and the former have no idea how to write the software !! Its a sad
> fact of life that people don't (won't ? ) talk to each other a lot ... if
> they did then maybe we would get software that people could use easily in
> their given discipline instead of having to try and "think like the
> programmer" that wrote it ! ..
>
> Given the above I am amazed there have been ANY useable electronic
> instruments at all ! .. I suspect the engineers at the major makers are
of
> the opinion that the instruments are great ... except for the musicians
> .. (much like a teacher who stated ... with all genuine honesty ...
> "Colleges are wonderful ... apart from the students" !!)
>
> The saying "there is no 'I' in team" ... should apply here .. there needs

> to be an engineer and a musician per instrument ! .. the musician coming
up
> with the ideas ... and the engineer making the ideas happen ...
>
> I wonder if THAT will ever happen ...
>
>
>
>
>
>
> At 14:15 10/08/13 +0000, you wrote:
> >Thanks Jason,
> >
> >i understand now what you are saying.
> >
> >i watched a few You Tube interviews with semi-famous musicians of the
> >1980's, and they said that throughout this period most of the 'pop' music

> >records just used the PRESET sounds (or slight modifications of) because
> >the average session musician found the synth too dificult to program.
And
> >as a result, you kept hearing all the SAME DX sounds on TV, films, and
> >recordings !!
> >
> >Paul
> >
> >
> >--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Jason Adkins <jason_ralf808@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Paul,
> > >
> > > I think people complained because it didn't have knobs and sliders and
> > > it had operators and algorithm's and to be fair the original DX7 is a
> > > pig to program which is why most musicians who could afford one just
> > > used the presets and then bought sounds on rom carts.
> > > The ultra rare programmer for the DX7 is silly money!
> > > Talking of knobs and sliders,checkout the Korg 707 it has 4 sliders,2
> > > assignable to eg, only 4op but dirt cheap on craigslist/ebay and they
> > > are better than most people think.
> > >
> > > J
> > >
> > >
> > > On 10 Aug 2013, at 00:53, Paul wrote:
> > >
> > > > i was bidding on ebay on the Howard Massey book last week but got
> > > > outbidded at the last minute (which was really annoying !!). So it
> > > > is great to at least have a PDF copy of it.
> > > >
> > > > If there has been so much written about the DX7 (as seems the case
> > > > here), then why did everyone complain in the 1980's that it was too
> > > > difficult to understand and operate ??
> > > >
> > > > --- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Allan Yates <allan@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > You're welcome. My contribution was the scan of The Complete
> > > > DX7II. Everything else I found on other people's sites. I collected
> > > > all the info while repairing a friends unit. This is just my way of
> > > > giving back.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Allan.
> > > > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > From: ***@yahoogroups.com [***@yahoogroups.com] on
> > > > behalf of Paul [paulseaman1@]
> > > > > Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 5:07 PM
> > > > > To: ***@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Subject: [YamahaDX] Re: Other DX7 books?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > WOW, lots of useful books on the Mr Yates site !! i just
> > > > downloaded a few. Look forward to reading them. THANKS !!
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In ***@yahoogroups.com<mailto:YamahaDX > >
> > %40yahoogroups.com>, "rawl47" <rawl747@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Don't forget this great resource:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://yates.ca/dx7/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mr. Yates has a fair number of these titles already in
> > > > electronic format for your reading pleasure.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Plus some other useful technical information. Mr. Yates has had
> > > > his repository around for quite a few years...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > Rawl
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>




------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Daniel Forró]

From which reason? Do you need more sounds than 32 in one song? Then
you can send SysEx to change whole RAM contents. Or because TX7 can
play only one sound in time, there's another possible method - not to
use sounds in RAM changed by Program Change command, but to use only
edit buffer for playing the sound, and fill it just before you need
it, when there's a short rest in the music. It's a short SysEx block
which shouldn't damage music data when sent during the rest. It's only
necessary to be careful when previous sound has longer release, and
wait until it's away.

I'm not aware of such modification. It's a question if it is possible
- maybe CPU can't address bigger RAM and even hacking and
reprogramming of OS wouldn't allow it. I've seen a mod somebody did in
some instrument or cartridge, now I can't remember what exactly it
was. He just soldered the same RAM chip directly on original RAM chip,
left CS pin or something like this not connected, and used switch for
changing RAM chips. Difficult to say if this can be done with TX7.
DX7 with its cartridge slot is more open to such modification...

Or maybe you can buy TX802 or DX7 II - they offer more memory plus
cartridge.

Daniel Forro

On 11 Aug, 2013, at 12:53 AM, Chris Poacher wrote:

>
>
> Does anyone know of an upgrade to give more memory for a TX7? I
> would love to get one.
>
> Cheers,
> Chris Poacher
>
> ***@yahoo.co.uk
> ***@gmail.com
>
> Please feel free to check out my music at:-
> www.soundcloud.com/chrispoacher/sets
> www.mixcloud.com/chrispoacher
> www.adsr-music.net
>

[Wes Garland]

On 11 August 2013 06:32, Daniel Forró <***@tiscali.cz> wrote:

> **
> not to use sounds in RAM changed by Program Change command, but to use
> only edit buffer for playing the sound, and fill it just before you need
> it, when there's a short rest in the music. It's a short SysEx block which
> shouldn't damage music data when sent during the rest. It's only necessary
> to be careful when previous sound has longer release, and wait until it's
> away.
>

This technique works great, BTW. About a million years ago I wrote some
software which let me control the edit buffer of a TX7 using the faders and
switches on a DMP-10 MIDI mixer. The software was used for live
performance. There was the occasional glitch which I never sorted out that
could result in stuck oscillators or something. I programmed a button on
the mixer to reset the TX7 in case this ever happened live. It did not.


> I'm not aware of such modification. It's a question if it is possible -
> maybe CPU can't address bigger RAM and even hacking and reprogramming of OS
> wouldn't allow it. I've seen a mod somebody did in some instrument or
> cartridge, now I can't remember what exactly it was. He just soldered the
> same RAM chip directly on original RAM chip, left CS pin or something like
> this not connected, and used switch for changing RAM chips. Difficult to
> say if this can be done with TX7.
>

That is a standard 1980s microcomputer trick and having reviewed the
schematics for the TX7, I see no reason why it would not work..although the
M5M5118P might be a bit difficult to source nowadays! It is a 2048-byte
SRAM in a wide DIP.. like you would find in a VIC-20 or Timex-Sinclair
1000. I think it's a Toshiba part.

It might be easier to use a commodity SRAM like the 61256 (check old 80486
motherboards) and switch the address lines instead of the CS lines. It will
be a bit harder to wire up, but the original chip is very slow anyhow.
Warning, adding RAM will make the internal battery discharge more quickly.

You could add a rotary encoder and some TTL buffering to the unit to
manipulate the CS lines with the power on...I think this would actually be
safe, as I bet the SRAM is used for patch storage, but the edit buffer is
probably in the CPU's internal RAM, from $40-$FF. (Boy are these things
ever memory efficient!)

BTW, looking at the memory map, it should be possible to add a lot of
"natively addressable" patch storage to this thing with only minor firmware
tweaks...have the ROMs ever been disassembled & documented?


> Or maybe you can buy TX802 or DX7 II - they offer more memory plus
> cartridge.
>

I have a DX7 IIFD E!, this gives me 8 banks of 64 patches. Thats enough
that I can devote an entire bank to just Hammond registrations!

Wes

--
Wesley W. Garland
Director, Product Development
PageMail, Inc.
[phone] x 102

[Mike Ward]

You forget about Kieth Emerson and Rick Wakeman.




________________________________
From: Paul <***@hotmail.com>
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2013 10:03 AM
Subject: [YamahaDX] Re: Other DX7 books?



 
Hi Yvonne,

Well (for me) the greatest keyboard players in the world have been Herbie Hancock, Joe Zawinul, and Chick Corea. Whatever synth is in their hands they make it their 'own'. The former two here are GENIOUS programers and use their synths to the full potential. And Zawinul worked closey with Korg to help develop its technology.

i had often seen the type of advertising statement "Designed by musicians for musicians" and so collaborations must have existed in certain situations.

Anyway, the people at the top of their game seem to be bloody good at EVERYTHING !! Hancock has always been very interseted in Science and he says that (the invention of) synths allowed him to make the bridge between the two fields of Music and Science.

But on a more down-to-earth level, i have always known musicians to swing either towards being a 'player' or a 'programmer' for the most part.

Paul

--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Yvonne R <***@...> wrote:
>
> BUT is that a bad thing ?? People bought the Hammond for the "Hammond
> sound" ... I guess they bought the DX for the "DX sound / special FX"
>
> People take a long time to actually try out most things ... Microsoft
> proved that with Word ... they asked millions of users what they would like
> to see in a future release of Word .. ... they got a ton of replies ...
> and so went to work to find the most popular ... they never had to change
> anything !!! ALL the requested features and functions were ALREADY in the
> package ... !! People hardly ever use the technology they have to its full
> potential .. yet buy new items to try and get a specific function ... when,
> in the majority of cases, I suspect, they have the option in the kit they
> have .. but just haven't looked into using it correctly.
>
> One of the main problems with technology, especially when applied to music,
> is ... musicians are not engineers !! Sadly engineers are, on the most
> part, not musicians ... yet to get the very best out of, say a DX, you
> really need to be an engineer ... but to play it requires a good musician !!
>
> I used to be an engineer in Birmingham UK .. I worked for several of the
> music shops ( several at the same time !!) .. I was asked to play a
> Gulbranson organ once by the manager of one shop ... I told him I had a
> better chance of flying to the moon from a standing start .... we asked my
> why I could not play ... I replied with ... "so why can't you repair them
> ?" .... he thought ... nodded ... and went out to play for the customer !
> ...
>
> The same problem seems to be prevalent almost anywhere there is technology
> ... the majority of programmers do not know how to be a given discipline
> (Doctor, Lawyer ... etc) .. yet write the software the former have to use
> ... and the former have no idea how to write the software !! Its a sad
> fact of life that people don't (won't ? ) talk to each other a lot ... if
> they did then maybe we would get software that people could use easily in
> their given discipline instead of having to try and "think like the
> programmer" that wrote it ! ..
>
> Given the above I am amazed there have been ANY useable electronic
> instruments at all ! .. I suspect the engineers at the major makers are of
> the opinion that the instruments are great ... except for the musicians
> .. (much like a teacher who stated ... with all genuine honesty ...
> "Colleges are wonderful ... apart from the students" !!)
>
> The saying "there is no 'I' in team" ... should apply here .. there needs
> to be an engineer and a musician per instrument ! .. the musician coming up
> with the ideas ... and the engineer making the ideas happen ...
>
> I wonder if THAT will ever happen ...
>
>
>
>
>
>
> At 14:15 10/08/13 +0000, you wrote:
> >Thanks Jason,
> >
> >i understand now what you are saying.
> >
> >i watched a few You Tube interviews with semi-famous musicians of the
> >1980's, and they said that throughout this period most of the 'pop' music
> >records just used the PRESET sounds (or slight modifications of) because
> >the average session musician found the synth too dificult to program. And
> >as a result, you kept hearing all the SAME DX sounds on TV, films, and
> >recordings !!
> >
> >Paul
> >
> >
> >--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Jason Adkins <jason_ralf808@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Paul,
> > >
> > > I think people complained because it didn't have knobs and sliders and
> > > it had operators and algorithm's and to be fair the original DX7 is a
> > > pig to program which is why most musicians who could afford one just
> > > used the presets and then bought sounds on rom carts.
> > > The ultra rare programmer for the DX7 is silly money!
> > > Talking of knobs and sliders,checkout the Korg 707 it has 4 sliders,2
> > > assignable to eg, only 4op but dirt cheap on craigslist/ebay and they
> > > are better than most people think.
> > >
> > > J
> > >
> > >
> > > On 10 Aug 2013, at 00:53, Paul wrote:
> > >
> > > > i was bidding on ebay on the Howard Massey book last week but got
> > > > outbidded at the last minute (which was really annoying !!). So it
> > > > is great to at least have a PDF copy of it.
> > > >
> > > > If there has been so much written about the DX7 (as seems the case
> > > > here), then why did everyone complain in the 1980's that it was too
> > > > difficult to understand and operate ??
> > > >
> > > > --- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Allan Yates <allan@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > You're welcome. My contribution was the scan of The Complete
> > > > DX7II. Everything else I found on other people's sites. I collected
> > > > all the info while repairing a friends unit. This is just my way of
> > > > giving back.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Allan.
> > > > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > From: ***@yahoogroups.com [***@yahoogroups.com] on
> > > > behalf of Paul [paulseaman1@]
> > > > > Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 5:07 PM
> > > > > To: ***@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Subject: [YamahaDX] Re: Other DX7 books?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > WOW, lots of useful books on the Mr Yates site !! i just
> > > > downloaded a few. Look forward to reading them. THANKS !!
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In ***@yahoogroups.com<mailto:YamahaDX > >
> > %40yahoogroups.com>, "rawl47" <rawl747@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Don't forget this great resource:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://yates.ca/dx7/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mr. Yates has a fair number of these titles already in
> > > > electronic format for your reading pleasure.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Plus some other useful technical information. Mr. Yates has had
> > > > his repository around for quite a few years...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > Rawl
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>

[Paul]

Hi Mike,

Yes, i totally LOVE Keith Emerson and i also recently learned that Oscar Peterson liked him also !! Keith was way more than just a 'Prog Rock' keys player.

i emailed Rick Wakeman only last week to see if he wanted to sell one of his SIX (!!) Minimoogs. But he said that none of them are for sale and ofoffered me some encouragement. He seems a really nice guy.

Paul



--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Mike Ward <***@...> wrote:
>
> You forget about Kieth Emerson and Rick Wakeman.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Paul <***@...>
> To: ***@yahoogroups.com >
>
> Well (for me) the greatest keyboard players in the world have been Herbie Hancock, Joe Zawinul, and Chick Corea. Whatever synth is in their hands they make it their 'own'. The former two here are GENIOUS programers and use their synths to the full potential. And Zawinul worked closey with Korg to help develop its technology.
>

[Daniel Forró]

I would add also Jan Hammer and Jordan Rudess...

Daniel Forro

On 11 Aug, 2013, at 10:45 PM, Paul wrote:

> Hi Mike,
>
> Yes, i totally LOVE Keith Emerson and i also recently learned that
> Oscar Peterson liked him also !! Keith was way more than just a
> 'Prog Rock' keys player.
>
> i emailed Rick Wakeman only last week to see if he wanted to sell
> one of his SIX (!!) Minimoogs. But he said that none of them are
> for sale and ofoffered me some encouragement. He seems a really
> nice guy.
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> --- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Mike Ward <***@...> wrote:
>>
>> You forget about Kieth Emerson and Rick Wakeman.
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Paul <***@...>
>> To: ***@yahoogroups.com >
>>
>> Well (for me) the greatest keyboard players in the world have been
>> Herbie Hancock, Joe Zawinul, and Chick Corea. Whatever synth is in
>> their hands they make it their 'own'. The former two here are
>> GENIOUS programers and use their synths to the full potential. And
>> Zawinul worked closey with Korg to help develop its technology.
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Paul]

Hi,

i think Tony Banks of Genesis use a DX7 in the 80's. i have heard snippets of his playing with the band and i thought he was quite 'creative' sound-wise. But i am not that familiar with the music of this group or his musical approach/set-up.

Paul



--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Forró <***@...> wrote:
>
> I would add also Jan Hammer and Jordan Rudess...
>
> Daniel Forro
>
> On 11 Aug, 2013, at 10:45 PM, Paul wrote:
>
> > Hi Mike,
> >
> > Yes, i totally LOVE Keith Emerson and i also recently learned that
> > Oscar Peterson liked him also !! Keith was way more than just a
> > 'Prog Rock' keys player.
> >
> > i emailed Rick Wakeman only last week to see if he wanted to sell
> > one of his SIX (!!) Minimoogs. But he said that none of them are
> > for sale and offered me some encouragement. He seems a really
> > nice guy.
> >
> > Paul
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Mike Ward <antebios1153@> wrote:
> >>
> >> You forget about Kieth Emerson and Rick Wakeman.
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: Paul <paulseaman1@>
> >> To: ***@yahoogroups.com >
> >>
> >> Well (for me) the greatest keyboard players in the world have been
> >> Herbie Hancock, Joe Zawinul, and Chick Corea. Whatever synth is in
> >> their hands they make it their 'own'. The former two here are
> >> GENIOUS programers and use their synths to the full potential. And
> >> Zawinul worked closey with Korg to help develop its technology.

[Eb Mayat]

Hello

It seems that the "DX7 books" thread has been extensively hijacked for philosophical discussion not unlike many post midnight, post-gig discussions . . . :-).

How about a fresh start with some inspiring pictures ?

Have a great day all.
Eb 


________________________________
From: Paul <***@hotmail.com>
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2013 10:30 AM
Subject: [YamahaDX] Re: Other DX7 books?



 
Hi,

i think Tony Banks of Genesis use a DX7 in the 80's. i have heard snippets of his playing with the band and i thought he was quite 'creative' sound-wise. But i am not that familiar with the music of this group or his musical approach/set-up.

Paul

--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Forró <***@...> wrote:
>
> I would add also Jan Hammer and Jordan Rudess...
>
> Daniel Forro
>
> On 11 Aug, 2013, at 10:45 PM, Paul wrote:
>
> > Hi Mike,
> >
> > Yes, i totally LOVE Keith Emerson and i also recently learned that
> > Oscar Peterson liked him also !! Keith was way more than just a
> > 'Prog Rock' keys player.
> >
> > i emailed Rick Wakeman only last week to see if he wanted to sell
> > one of his SIX (!!) Minimoogs. But he said that none of them are
> > for sale and offered me some encouragement. He seems a really
> > nice guy.
> >
> > Paul
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Mike Ward <antebios1153@> wrote:
> >>
> >> You forget about Kieth Emerson and Rick Wakeman.
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: Paul <paulseaman1@>
> >> To: ***@yahoogroups.com >
> >>
> >> Well (for me) the greatest keyboard players in the world have been
> >> Herbie Hancock, Joe Zawinul, and Chick Corea. Whatever synth is in
> >> their hands they make it their 'own'. The former two here are
> >> GENIOUS programers and use their synths to the full potential. And
> >> Zawinul worked closey with Korg to help develop its technology.

[Vince]

Kieth Emerson is probably the greatest keyboard player of all time.His interpretations of classical music were an inspiration to most of the great rockers of the past and present back to the 1960s.Walkmen and Banks are right up there with him.His musical abilities blew me away.I begged my mother for piano lessons ,and that got me on the piano in 1969 after I heard Pictures at an Exhibition. Still playing.
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 8/11/13, Eb Mayat <***@yahoo.com> wrote:

Subject: [YamahaDX] DX Pictures [2 Attachments]
To: "***@yahoogroups.com" <***@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, August 11, 2013, 10:07 AM
















 









[Attachment(s) from Eb Mayat included
below]


Hello
It
seems that the "DX7 books" thread has been
extensively hijacked for philosophical discussion not unlike
many post midnight, post-gig discussions . . .
:-).
How
about
a fresh start with some inspiring pictures
?
Have
a great day all.Eb 
From: Paul
<***@hotmail.com>
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday,
August 11, 2013 10:30 AM
Subject:
[YamahaDX] Re: Other DX7 books?

















 






Hi,



i think Tony Banks of Genesis use a DX7 in the 80's. i
have heard snippets of his playing with the band and i
thought he was quite 'creative' sound-wise. But i
am not that familiar with the music of this group or his
musical approach/set-up.



Paul



--- In ***@yahoogroups.com,
Daniel Forró <***@...> wrote:

>

> I would add also Jan Hammer and Jordan Rudess...

>

> Daniel Forro

>

> On 11 Aug, 2013, at 10:45 PM, Paul wrote:

>

> > Hi Mike,

> >

> > Yes, i totally LOVE Keith Emerson and i also
recently learned that

> > Oscar Peterson liked him also !! Keith was way
more than just a

> > 'Prog Rock' keys player.

> >

> > i emailed Rick Wakeman only last week to see if he
wanted to sell

> > one of his SIX (!!) Minimoogs. But he said that
none of them are

> > for sale and offered me some encouragement. He
seems a really

> > nice guy.

> >

> > Paul

> >

> >

> >

> > --- In ***@yahoogroups.com,
Mike Ward <antebios1153@> wrote:

> >>

> >> You forget about Kieth Emerson and Rick
Wakeman.

> >>

> >>

> >> ________________________________

> >> From: Paul <paulseaman1@>

> >> To: ***@yahoogroups.com
>

> >>

> >> Well (for me) the greatest keyboard players in
the world have been

> >> Herbie Hancock, Joe Zawinul, and Chick Corea.
Whatever synth is in

> >> their hands they make it their 'own'.
The former two here are

> >> GENIOUS programers and use their synths to the
full potential. And

> >> Zawinul worked closey with Korg to help
develop its technology.

[Vince]

--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 8/11/13, Paul <***@hotmail.com> wrote:

Subject: [YamahaDX] Re: Other DX7 books?
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, August 11, 2013, 9:30 AM



Tony is awesomehis cross hands technique on the Lamb lies down on broadway is inspiring.his live shows with Genesis blew me away.No sequencers or tape playing.Just him on this Wakeman like giant keyboard rack.I saw them 6 times in the 70's and 80's



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N1YQ_gE7jc








 









Hi,



i think Tony Banks of Genesis use a DX7 in the 80's. i
have heard snippets of his playing with the band and i
thought he was quite 'creative' sound-wise. But i
am not that familiar with the music of this group or his
musical approach/set-up.



Paul



--- In ***@yahoogroups.com,
Daniel Forró <***@...> wrote:

>

> I would add also Jan Hammer and Jordan Rudess...

>

> Daniel Forro

>

> On 11 Aug, 2013, at 10:45 PM, Paul wrote:

>

> > Hi Mike,

> >

> > Yes, i totally LOVE Keith Emerson and i also
recently learned that

> > Oscar Peterson liked him also !! Keith was way
more than just a

> > 'Prog Rock' keys player.

> >

> > i emailed Rick Wakeman only last week to see if he
wanted to sell

> > one of his SIX (!!) Minimoogs. But he said that
none of them are

> > for sale and offered me some encouragement. He
seems a really

> > nice guy.

> >

> > Paul

> >

> >

> >

> > --- In ***@yahoogroups.com,
Mike Ward <antebios1153@> wrote:

> >>

> >> You forget about Kieth Emerson and Rick
Wakeman.

> >>

> >>

> >> ________________________________

> >> From: Paul <paulseaman1@>

> >> To: ***@yahoogroups.com
>

> >>

> >> Well (for me) the greatest keyboard players in
the world have been

> >> Herbie Hancock, Joe Zawinul, and Chick Corea.
Whatever synth is in

> >> their hands they make it their 'own'.
The former two here are

> >> GENIOUS programers and use their synths to the
full potential. And

> >> Zawinul worked closey with Korg to help
develop its technology.

[John McIntyre]

Yvonne R wrote:
>
>
> The saying "there is no 'I' in team" ... should apply here .. there
> needs to be an engineer and a musician per instrument ! .. the
> musician coming up with the ideas ... and the engineer making the
> ideas happen ...
>
> I wonder if THAT will ever happen ...
>
It has. The sequencer. Carlos expressed the desire, and Moog said,
"Oh, I can do that."

It happened even earlier with the Theremin. Now there, the Theremin
already existed, but Clara Rockmore expressed her desire for some
changes, and Leon Theremin complied.

That's also what happens with signature guitars, but perhaps you're
looking for more radical ideas.

John McIntyre
***@pa.msu.edu

[Yvonne R]

Yes ... but they are one offs ... so rare you can name them !! I am talking
about the great masses that buy equipment, in some cases by how it looks
... or its colour rather than what it can do .. and will never bother to
investigate the instruments, software, car !!!!! real abilities ...

If it was that common ... you would not have individual names to quote ...

Liken it to fatal Scuba diving accidents ... or Aircraft accidents ( fatal
or NOT) still reported in the news ... yet we hardly ever hear of the
millions of car and bike deaths on the news unless its a big one ! ( or
someone famous) ... the specials .. the one offs stand out ...

In general terms people lose out a lot because they can not be bothered to
learn ... a quote ...

"Poor people have large Televisions .... rich people have large libraries" ...

Television is the opiate of the masses ... it turns their brains to mush
and keeps the government safe from awkward questions ... the day will
probably come where the TV has no OFF switch and people will be forced to
watch it ... and the propaganda and lies it delivers to them. There are
some interesting things on the TV .. but they are few and far between these
days ... "000's of channels and nothing on" I seem to remember the song went !


Yvonne


At 20:22 10/08/13 -0400, you wrote:
>Yvonne R wrote:
> >
> >
> > The saying "there is no 'I' in team" ... should apply here .. there
> > needs to be an engineer and a musician per instrument ! .. the
> > musician coming up with the ideas ... and the engineer making the
> > ideas happen ...
> >
> > I wonder if THAT will ever happen ...
> >
>It has. The sequencer. Carlos expressed the desire, and Moog said,
>"Oh, I can do that."
>
>It happened even earlier with the Theremin. Now there, the Theremin
>already existed, but Clara Rockmore expressed her desire for some
>changes, and Leon Theremin complied.
>
>That's also what happens with signature guitars, but perhaps you're
>looking for more radical ideas.
>
>John McIntyre
>***@pa.msu.edu
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Paul]

Ha ha Yvonne,

You are certainly very full of many interesting quotes and analogies !!

Paul



--In ***@yahoogroups.com, Yvonne R <***@...> wrote:
>
>
> "Poor people have large Televisions .... rich people have large libraries" ...

[Mike Ward]

You didn't have to program for the Hammond sound. And a Leslie didn't hurt either.




________________________________
From: Yvonne R <***@googlemail.com>
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2013 9:35 AM
Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] Re: Other DX7 books?



 
BUT is that a bad thing ??   People bought the
Hammond for the "Hammond sound" ... I guess they bought the DX
for the "DX sound / special FX" 

People take a long time to actually try out most things ... Microsoft
proved that with Word ... they asked millions of users what they would
like to see in a future release of Word ..  ... they got a ton of
replies ... and so went to work to find the most popular ... they never
had to change anything !!! ALL the requested features and functions were
ALREADY in the package ...  !! People hardly ever use the technology
they have to its full potential .. yet buy new items to try and get a
specific function ... when, in the majority of cases, I suspect, they
have the option in the kit they have ..  but just haven't looked
into using it correctly.

One of the main problems with technology, especially when applied to
music, is ... musicians are not engineers !!  Sadly engineers are,
on the most part, not musicians ... yet to get the very best out of, say
a DX, you really need to be an engineer ... but to play it requires a
good musician !!

I used to be an engineer in Birmingham UK .. I worked for several of the
music shops ( several at the same time !!) .. I was asked to play a
Gulbranson organ once by the manager of one shop ... I told him I had a
better chance of flying to the moon from a standing start .... we asked
my why I could not play ... I replied with ... "so why can't you
repair them ?" ....   he thought ... nodded ... and went
out to play for the customer ! ...

The same problem seems to be prevalent almost anywhere there is
technology ... the majority of programmers do not know how to be a given
discipline (Doctor, Lawyer ... etc) .. yet write the software the former
have to use ... and the former have no idea how to write the software
!!   Its a sad fact of life that people don't (won't ? ) talk
to each other a lot ... if they did then maybe we would get software that
people could use easily in their given discipline instead of having to
try and "think like the programmer" that wrote it ! ..

Given the above I am amazed there have been ANY useable electronic
instruments at all ! ..  I suspect the engineers at the major makers
are of the opinion that the instruments are great ... except for the
musicians ..  (much like a teacher who stated ... with all genuine
honesty ... "Colleges are wonderful ... apart from the
students" !!)

The saying "there is no 'I' in team" ...  should apply
here .. there needs to be an engineer and a musician per instrument ! ..
the musician coming up with the ideas ... and the engineer making the
ideas happen ...

I wonder if THAT will ever happen ...






At 14:15 10/08/13 +0000, you wrote:

Thanks Jason,
>
>i understand now what you are saying.
>
>i watched a few You Tube interviews with semi-famous musicians of the
1980's, and they said that throughout this period most of the 'pop' music
records just used the PRESET sounds (or slight modifications of) because
the average session musician found the synth too dificult to
program.  And as a result, you kept hearing all the SAME DX sounds
on TV, films, and recordings !!
>
>Paul
>
>
>--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Jason Adkins <***@...>
wrote:
>>
>> Hi Paul,
>>
>> I think people complained because it didn't have knobs and sliders
and 
>> it had operators and algorithm's and to be fair the original DX7 is
a 
>> pig to program which is why most musicians who could afford one
just 
>> used the presets and then bought sounds on rom carts.
>> The ultra rare programmer for the DX7 is silly money!
>> Talking of knobs and sliders,checkout the Korg 707 it has 4
sliders,2 
>> assignable to eg, only 4op but dirt cheap on craigslist/ebay and
they 
>> are better than most people think.
>>
>> J
>>
>>
>> On 10 Aug 2013, at 00:53, Paul wrote:
>>
>> > i was bidding on ebay on the Howard Massey book last week but
got 
>> > outbidded at the last minute (which was really annoying !!). So
it 
>> > is great to at least have a PDF copy of it.
>> >
>> > If there has been so much written about the DX7 (as seems the
case 
>> > here), then why did everyone complain in the 1980's that it was
too 
>> > difficult to understand and operate ??
>> >
>> > --- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Allan Yates <allan@>
wrote:
>> > >
>> > > You're welcome. My contribution was the scan of The
Complete 
>> > DX7II. Everything else I found on other people's sites. I
collected 
>> > all the info while repairing a friends unit. This is just my
way of 
>> > giving back.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Allan.
>> > >
>> > > ________________________________
>> > > From: ***@yahoogroups.com [***@yahoogroups.com]
on 
>> > behalf of Paul [paulseaman1@]
>> > > Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 5:07 PM
>> > > To: ***@yahoogroups.com
>> > > Subject: [YamahaDX] Re: Other DX7 books?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > WOW, lots of useful books on the Mr Yates site !! i
just 
>> > downloaded a few. Look forward to reading them. THANKS !!
>> > >
>> > > --- In
***@yahoogroups.com<mailto:YamahaDX > > %40yahoogroups.com>, "rawl47" <rawl747@>
wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > Don't forget this great resource:
>> > > >
>> > > > http://yates.ca/dx7/
>> > > >
>> > > > Mr. Yates has a fair number of these titles already
in 
>> > electronic format for your reading pleasure.
>> > > >
>> > > > Plus some other useful technical information. Mr.
Yates has had 
>> > his repository around for quite a few years...
>> > > >
>> > > > Cheers,
>> > > > Rawl
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Yvonne R]

My point entirely ... if you stick to the preset "factory" sounds you have
the "DX" sound ...



>You didn't have to program for the Hammond sound. And a Leslie didn't hurt
>either.

[John McIntyre]

Mike Ward wrote:
>
> You didn't have to program for the Hammond sound.
What would you say the drawbars are doing? Isn't that programming?

John McIntyre
***@pa.msu.edu

[Jason Adkins]

Hi again Paul,

Your not wrong,there was a really crappy era for music in the mid to
late eighties (until the house,sampled hiphop and techno guys started
and got popular) all cheese mainly DX7 "shine" think Miami Vice...
There was a program transmitted by the BBC called Top Of The Pops in
the UK which was just a rundown of the top 40 best selling records and
every band was just miming,I have done this and I felt like an
idiot... anyway, and what were they miming on? yes you guessed it a
DX7,I think the BBC must have bought a job lot.
Actually I think New Order insisted on playing live,and what a pigs
breakfast they made of it:-

http://youtu.be/eTb2rZ0SBg4

J

On 10 Aug 2013, at 15:15, Paul wrote:

> Thanks Jason,
>
> i understand now what you are saying.
>
> i watched a few You Tube interviews with semi-famous musicians of
> the 1980's, and they said that throughout this period most of the
> 'pop' music records just used the PRESET sounds (or slight
> modifications of) because the average session musician found the
> synth too dificult to program. And as a result, you kept hearing all
> the SAME DX sounds on TV, films, and recordings !!
>
> Paul
>
> --- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Jason Adkins <***@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Paul,
> >
> > I think people complained because it didn't have knobs and sliders
> and
> > it had operators and algorithm's and to be fair the original DX7
> is a
> > pig to program which is why most musicians who could afford one just
> > used the presets and then bought sounds on rom carts.
> > The ultra rare programmer for the DX7 is silly money!
> > Talking of knobs and sliders,checkout the Korg 707 it has 4
> sliders,2
> > assignable to eg, only 4op but dirt cheap on craigslist/ebay and
> they
> > are better than most people think.
> >
> > J
> >
> >
> > On 10 Aug 2013, at 00:53, Paul wrote:
> >
> > > i was bidding on ebay on the Howard Massey book last week but got
> > > outbidded at the last minute (which was really annoying !!). So it
> > > is great to at least have a PDF copy of it.
> > >
> > > If there has been so much written about the DX7 (as seems the case
> > > here), then why did everyone complain in the 1980's that it was
> too
> > > difficult to understand and operate ??
> > >
> > > --- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Allan Yates <allan@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > You're welcome. My contribution was the scan of The Complete
> > > DX7II. Everything else I found on other people's sites. I
> collected
> > > all the info while repairing a friends unit. This is just my way
> of
> > > giving back.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Allan.
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: ***@yahoogroups.com [***@yahoogroups.com] on
> > > behalf of Paul [paulseaman1@]
> > > > Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 5:07 PM
> > > > To: ***@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: [YamahaDX] Re: Other DX7 books?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > WOW, lots of useful books on the Mr Yates site !! i just
> > > downloaded a few. Look forward to reading them. THANKS !!
> > > >
> > > > --- In ***@yahoogroups.com<mailto:YamahaDX
> > > %40yahoogroups.com>, "rawl47" <rawl747@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Don't forget this great resource:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://yates.ca/dx7/
> > > > >
> > > > > Mr. Yates has a fair number of these titles already in
> > > electronic format for your reading pleasure.
> > > > >
> > > > > Plus some other useful technical information. Mr. Yates has
> had
> > > his repository around for quite a few years...
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > Rawl
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>

[Paul]

Hi Jason,

i live in the UK so i am all too familiar with TOTP !! Bloody AWFUL for the most part !! ha ha.........

Yes, the New Order performance is something else !! lol Will they have been using a drum-machine synched to the synth-bass-line to generate the basic foundation of the song ?? And then play the synths LIVE over the top ??

i have had to MIME myself before and it is totally demoralising !!

Paul



--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Jason Adkins <***@...> wrote:
>
> Hi again Paul,
>
> Your not wrong,there was a really crappy era for music in the mid to
> late eighties (until the house,sampled hiphop and techno guys started
> and got popular) all cheese mainly DX7 "shine" think Miami Vice...
> There was a program transmitted by the BBC called Top Of The Pops in
> the UK which was just a rundown of the top 40 best selling records and
> every band was just miming,I have done this and I felt like an
> idiot... anyway, and what were they miming on? yes you guessed it a
> DX7,I think the BBC must have bought a job lot.
> Actually I think New Order insisted on playing live,and what a pigs
> breakfast they made of it:-
>
> http://youtu.be/eTb2rZ0SBg4
>
> J
>
> On 10 Aug 2013, at 15:15, Paul wrote:
>
> > Thanks Jason,
> >
> > i understand now what you are saying.
> >
> > i watched a few You Tube interviews with semi-famous musicians of
> > the 1980's, and they said that throughout this period most of the
> > 'pop' music records just used the PRESET sounds (or slight
> > modifications of) because the average session musician found the
> > synth too dificult to program. And as a result, you kept hearing all
> > the SAME DX sounds on TV, films, and recordings !!
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > --- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Jason Adkins <jason_ralf808@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Paul,
> > >
> > > I think people complained because it didn't have knobs and sliders
> > and
> > > it had operators and algorithm's and to be fair the original DX7
> > is a
> > > pig to program which is why most musicians who could afford one just
> > > used the presets and then bought sounds on rom carts.
> > > The ultra rare programmer for the DX7 is silly money!
> > > Talking of knobs and sliders,checkout the Korg 707 it has 4
> > sliders,2
> > > assignable to eg, only 4op but dirt cheap on craigslist/ebay and
> > they
> > > are better than most people think.
> > >
> > > J
> > >
> > >
> > > On 10 Aug 2013, at 00:53, Paul wrote:
> > >
> > > > i was bidding on ebay on the Howard Massey book last week but got
> > > > outbidded at the last minute (which was really annoying !!). So it
> > > > is great to at least have a PDF copy of it.
> > > >
> > > > If there has been so much written about the DX7 (as seems the case
> > > > here), then why did everyone complain in the 1980's that it was
> > too
> > > > difficult to understand and operate ??
> > > >
> > > > --- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Allan Yates <allan@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > You're welcome. My contribution was the scan of The Complete
> > > > DX7II. Everything else I found on other people's sites. I
> > collected
> > > > all the info while repairing a friends unit. This is just my way
> > of
> > > > giving back.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Allan.
> > > > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > From: ***@yahoogroups.com [***@yahoogroups.com] on
> > > > behalf of Paul [paulseaman1@]
> > > > > Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 5:07 PM
> > > > > To: ***@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Subject: [YamahaDX] Re: Other DX7 books?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > WOW, lots of useful books on the Mr Yates site !! i just
> > > > downloaded a few. Look forward to reading them. THANKS !!
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In ***@yahoogroups.com<mailto:YamahaDX
> > > > %40yahoogroups.com>, "rawl47" <rawl747@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Don't forget this great resource:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://yates.ca/dx7/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mr. Yates has a fair number of these titles already in
> > > > electronic format for your reading pleasure.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Plus some other useful technical information. Mr. Yates has
> > had
> > > > his repository around for quite a few years...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > Rawl
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>

[Jason Adkins]

The TOTP dancers weren't too bad and it was the first TV program I
heard Kraftwerk on at the age of 10 so cheese but occasionally good!
Regarding New Order I haven't got a clue, I would imagine that was all
live though the drums are an Oberhiem DX on the original 12" so rest
could have have been synced or just played over an open reel but
unlike say soft cell there was no open reel on show,obviously the
synths were a moog source and a prophet 5,the drum pads and brain are
simmons don't ask me which brain, SDS5?

On 12 Aug 2013, at 00:01, Paul wrote:

> Hi Jason,
>
> i live in the UK so i am all too familiar with TOTP !! Bloody AWFUL
> for the most part !! ha ha.........
>
> Yes, the New Order performance is something else !! lol Will they
> have been using a drum-machine synched to the synth-bass-line to
> generate the basic foundation of the song ?? And then play the
> synths LIVE over the top ??
>
> i have had to MIME myself before and it is totally demoralising !!
>
> Paul
>
> --- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Jason Adkins <***@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi again Paul,
> >
> > Your not wrong,there was a really crappy era for music in the mid to
> > late eighties (until the house,sampled hiphop and techno guys
> started
> > and got popular) all cheese mainly DX7 "shine" think Miami Vice...
> > There was a program transmitted by the BBC called Top Of The Pops in
> > the UK which was just a rundown of the top 40 best selling records
> and
> > every band was just miming,I have done this and I felt like an
> > idiot... anyway, and what were they miming on? yes you guessed it a
> > DX7,I think the BBC must have bought a job lot.
> > Actually I think New Order insisted on playing live,and what a pigs
> > breakfast they made of it:-
> >
> > http://youtu.be/eTb2rZ0SBg4
> >
> > J
> >
> > On 10 Aug 2013, at 15:15, Paul wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks Jason,
> > >
> > > i understand now what you are saying.
> > >
> > > i watched a few You Tube interviews with semi-famous musicians of
> > > the 1980's, and they said that throughout this period most of the
> > > 'pop' music records just used the PRESET sounds (or slight
> > > modifications of) because the average session musician found the
> > > synth too dificult to program. And as a result, you kept hearing
> all
> > > the SAME DX sounds on TV, films, and recordings !!
> > >
> > > Paul
> > >
> > > --- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Jason Adkins <jason_ralf808@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Paul,
> > > >
> > > > I think people complained because it didn't have knobs and
> sliders
> > > and
> > > > it had operators and algorithm's and to be fair the original DX7
> > > is a
> > > > pig to program which is why most musicians who could afford
> one just
> > > > used the presets and then bought sounds on rom carts.
> > > > The ultra rare programmer for the DX7 is silly money!
> > > > Talking of knobs and sliders,checkout the Korg 707 it has 4
> > > sliders,2
> > > > assignable to eg, only 4op but dirt cheap on craigslist/ebay and
> > > they
> > > > are better than most people think.
> > > >
> > > > J
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 10 Aug 2013, at 00:53, Paul wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > i was bidding on ebay on the Howard Massey book last week
> but got
> > > > > outbidded at the last minute (which was really annoying !!).
> So it
> > > > > is great to at least have a PDF copy of it.
> > > > >
> > > > > If there has been so much written about the DX7 (as seems
> the case
> > > > > here), then why did everyone complain in the 1980's that it
> was
> > > too
> > > > > difficult to understand and operate ??
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Allan Yates <allan@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You're welcome. My contribution was the scan of The Complete
> > > > > DX7II. Everything else I found on other people's sites. I
> > > collected
> > > > > all the info while repairing a friends unit. This is just my
> way
> > > of
> > > > > giving back.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Allan.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > > From: ***@yahoogroups.com [***@yahoogroups.com] on
> > > > > behalf of Paul [paulseaman1@]
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 5:07 PM
> > > > > > To: ***@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Subject: [YamahaDX] Re: Other DX7 books?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > WOW, lots of useful books on the Mr Yates site !! i just
> > > > > downloaded a few. Look forward to reading them. THANKS !!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In ***@yahoogroups.com<mailto:YamahaDX
> > > > > %40yahoogroups.com>, "rawl47" <rawl747@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Don't forget this great resource:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://yates.ca/dx7/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mr. Yates has a fair number of these titles already in
> > > > > electronic format for your reading pleasure.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Plus some other useful technical information. Mr. Yates
> has
> > > had
> > > > > his repository around for quite a few years...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > > Rawl
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>

[Paul]

There is a massive EMULATOR synth as well !!

What do you mean by 'open reel' please ??



--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Jason Adkins <***@...> wrote:
>
> The TOTP dancers weren't too bad and it was the first TV program I
> heard Kraftwerk on at the age of 10 so cheese but occasionally good!
> Regarding New Order I haven't got a clue, I would imagine that was all
> live though the drums are an Oberhiem DX on the original 12" so rest
> could have have been synced or just played over an open reel but
> unlike say soft cell there was no open reel on show,obviously the
> synths were a moog source and a prophet 5,the drum pads and brain are
> simmons don't ask me which brain, SDS5?
>
> On 12 Aug 2013, at 00:01, Paul wrote:
>
> > Hi Jason,
> >
> > i live in the UK so i am all too familiar with TOTP !! Bloody AWFUL
> > for the most part !! ha ha.........
> >
> > Yes, the New Order performance is something else !! lol Will they
> > have been using a drum-machine synched to the synth-bass-line to
> > generate the basic foundation of the song ?? And then play the
> > synths LIVE over the top ??
> >
> > i have had to MIME myself before and it is totally demoralising !!
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > --- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Jason Adkins <jason_ralf808@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi again Paul,
> > >
> > > Your not wrong,there was a really crappy era for music in the mid to
> > > late eighties (until the house,sampled hiphop and techno guys
> > started
> > > and got popular) all cheese mainly DX7 "shine" think Miami Vice...
> > > There was a program transmitted by the BBC called Top Of The Pops in
> > > the UK which was just a rundown of the top 40 best selling records
> > and
> > > every band was just miming,I have done this and I felt like an
> > > idiot... anyway, and what were they miming on? yes you guessed it a
> > > DX7,I think the BBC must have bought a job lot.
> > > Actually I think New Order insisted on playing live,and what a pigs
> > > breakfast they made of it:-
> > >
> > > http://youtu.be/eTb2rZ0SBg4
> > >
> > > J
> > >
> > > On 10 Aug 2013, at 15:15, Paul wrote:
> > >
> > > > Thanks Jason,
> > > >
> > > > i understand now what you are saying.
> > > >
> > > > i watched a few You Tube interviews with semi-famous musicians of
> > > > the 1980's, and they said that throughout this period most of the
> > > > 'pop' music records just used the PRESET sounds (or slight
> > > > modifications of) because the average session musician found the
> > > > synth too dificult to program. And as a result, you kept hearing
> > all
> > > > the SAME DX sounds on TV, films, and recordings !!
> > > >
> > > > Paul
> > > >
> > > > --- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Jason Adkins <jason_ralf808@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Paul,
> > > > >
> > > > > I think people complained because it didn't have knobs and
> > sliders
> > > > and
> > > > > it had operators and algorithm's and to be fair the original DX7
> > > > is a
> > > > > pig to program which is why most musicians who could afford
> > one just
> > > > > used the presets and then bought sounds on rom carts.
> > > > > The ultra rare programmer for the DX7 is silly money!
> > > > > Talking of knobs and sliders,checkout the Korg 707 it has 4
> > > > sliders,2
> > > > > assignable to eg, only 4op but dirt cheap on craigslist/ebay and
> > > > they
> > > > > are better than most people think.
> > > > >
> > > > > J
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 10 Aug 2013, at 00:53, Paul wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > i was bidding on ebay on the Howard Massey book last week
> > but got
> > > > > > outbidded at the last minute (which was really annoying !!).
> > So it
> > > > > > is great to at least have a PDF copy of it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If there has been so much written about the DX7 (as seems
> > the case
> > > > > > here), then why did everyone complain in the 1980's that it
> > was
> > > > too
> > > > > > difficult to understand and operate ??
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Allan Yates <allan@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You're welcome. My contribution was the scan of The Complete
> > > > > > DX7II. Everything else I found on other people's sites. I
> > > > collected
> > > > > > all the info while repairing a friends unit. This is just my
> > way
> > > > of
> > > > > > giving back.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Allan.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > > > From: ***@yahoogroups.com [***@yahoogroups.com] on
> > > > > > behalf of Paul [paulseaman1@]
> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 5:07 PM
> > > > > > > To: ***@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > Subject: [YamahaDX] Re: Other DX7 books?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > WOW, lots of useful books on the Mr Yates site !! i just
> > > > > > downloaded a few. Look forward to reading them. THANKS !!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In ***@yahoogroups.com<mailto:YamahaDX
> > > > > > %40yahoogroups.com>, "rawl47" <rawl747@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Don't forget this great resource:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > http://yates.ca/dx7/
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Mr. Yates has a fair number of these titles already in
> > > > > > electronic format for your reading pleasure.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Plus some other useful technical information. Mr. Yates
> > has
> > > > had
> > > > > > his repository around for quite a few years...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > > > Rawl
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>